IAP without inbound course?

Roy Smith wrote:

Sam Spade wrote:

There is only one of those beasts in existence. If that what the "drill
instructor" was looking for, then it was an exercise in silliness.


And that makes in inappropriate for this newsgroup how?

Beats me. I did not suggest that. I suggested the "drill instructor"
was being silly if he was looking for the answer to be "that one DME ARC
IAP."

I suggested the "drill instructor" was being silly if he was looking for the answer to be "that one DME ARC IAP."

I disagree.

To bust somebody on a question like that would have been more than
silly. However, =asking= the question, as a "bonus question", is a way
of examining people's unstated assumptions about flight and the
environment in which we aviate. This is always a good thing.

Jose
--
The price of freedom is... well... freedom.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Jose wrote:

I suggested the "drill instructor" was being silly if he was looking
for the answer to be "that one DME ARC IAP."


I disagree.

To bust somebody on a question like that would have been more than
silly. However, =asking= the question, as a "bonus question", is a way
of examining people's unstated assumptions about flight and the
environment in which we aviate. This is always a good thing.

Jose
I agree, asking the question is appropriate and thought-provoking. But,
if the "drill instructor" was thinking in terms of DME ARC IAPs, then
that was silly. But, as I said at the beginning, he may have been
thinking of ASR and PAR.

In any case, based on the information available, there is a tad of
speculation going on here.

But, if the "drill instructor" was thinking in terms of DME ARC IAPs, then that was silly.

Not at all. I bet most people don't know the parameters of a DME arc,
and most have never flown them, even in practice.

"They're not all like that" is a very important thing to learn, and
examples pop up in the oddest places. My wish is that they never pop up
at inopportune times.

Jose
--
The price of freedom is... well... freedom.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Jose wrote:
But, if the "drill instructor" was thinking in terms of DME ARC IAPs,
then that was silly.


Not at all. I bet most people don't know the parameters of a DME arc,
and most have never flown them, even in practice.

"They're not all like that" is a very important thing to learn, and
examples pop up in the oddest places. My wish is that they never pop up
at inopportune times.

Jose
How? There is only one such IAP in the country (probably the world).
If, however, you mean most pilots don't know how to fly DME ARC initial
approach segments, then their training is seriously lacking.

There is only one such IAP in the country (probably the world). If, however, you mean most pilots don't know how to fly DME ARC initial approach segments, then their training is seriously lacking.

Then count me in. I was never taught the procedure; I asked here some
time ago and practiced it on my own. However, my training is not
"seriously lacking". The DME arcs were not around much (DME was not in
the aircraft either) when I took my training. I've kept up, but one
cannot keep up with what one does not know to keep up with, and some of
those things are obscure "gotchas".

Jose
--
The price of freedom is... well... freedom.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

The secret of flying a DME arc is the initial heading you
turn to when at the first fix and then turning to a heading
every 10 degrees of radial change, probably a 20 degree turn
each ten degrees on the arc. You can even stay pretty close
without a DME or GPS by guessing at a wind correction angle.
You can try using VOR cross bearings to set the first turn
fix and then try the first turn 90 degrees from the radial,
with about 5 degrees inside the turn. Then adjust the
heading as you cross each 10 degree radial. When you get to
the inbound course, less 10 degrees, turn to intercept.
Have somebody use a handheld GPS to monitor your distance,
but don't "fly" the GPS, this is a VFR dead reckoning
experiment.



--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"Jose" wrote in message
news | There is only one such IAP in the country (probably the
world). If, however, you mean most pilots don't know how to
fly DME ARC initial approach segments, then their training
is seriously lacking.
|
| Then count me in. I was never taught the procedure; I
asked here some
| time ago and practiced it on my own. However, my training
is not
| "seriously lacking". The DME arcs were not around much
(DME was not in
| the aircraft either) when I took my training. I've kept
up, but one
| cannot keep up with what one does not know to keep up
with, and some of
| those things are obscure "gotchas".
|
| Jose
| --
| The price of freedom is... well... freedom.
| for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Jose" wrote in message
news

Then count me in. I was never taught the procedure; I asked here some
time ago and practiced it on my own. However, my training is not
"seriously lacking". The DME arcs were not around much (DME was not in
the aircraft either) when I took my training. I've kept up, but one
cannot keep up with what one does not know to keep up with, and some of
those things are obscure "gotchas".


DME arcs were much more common years ago than they are today.

Jose wrote:
There is only one such IAP in the country (probably the world). If,
however, you mean most pilots don't know how to fly DME ARC initial
approach segments, then their training is seriously lacking.


Then count me in. I was never taught the procedure; I asked here some
time ago and practiced it on my own. However, my training is not
"seriously lacking". The DME arcs were not around much (DME was not in
the aircraft either) when I took my training. I've kept up, but one
cannot keep up with what one does not know to keep up with, and some of
those things are obscure "gotchas".

Jose
The procedure for flying DME ARCs was in the old instrument flying
handbook, both with and without an RMI.

I was never taught the procedure, either, when I obtained my instrument
rating. But, as a professional CFI-I, I became proficient in their use
and how to teach them as soon as it became apparent (circa late 1960s)
that they better be part of the proficient instrument pilot's toolkit.

There is only one such IAP in the country (probably the world). If,
however, you mean most pilots don't know how to fly DME ARC initial
approach segments, then their training is seriously lacking.

They used to have several DME ARC final approaches in Germany. The
military especially used them as backup procedures to get to the airport
if the base facilities were off the air, and sometimes as primary
procedures if there weren't any on-field facilities. Most of the time
the arc didn't line you up with the runway centerline unless the
facility just happened to be perfectly abeam the airport.

John