First IFR flight after checkride

Newps wrote:

Dave Butler wrote:


AFAIK there is no term "VFR departure" that means what you said.

He meant VFR climb. That makes you responsible for terrain and possibly
traffic. This is very common out here in the West to expedite getting
on course, you don't have to follow a cumbersome DP to clear terrain.

OK. VFR climb I am familiar with. I've never seen it used when issued a
clearance prior to takeoff, though. Must be a regional thing. I can see where it
could be convenient where terrain is an issue. DGB

Dave Butler wrote:
Newps wrote:

Dave Butler wrote:


AFAIK there is no term "VFR departure" that means what you said.


He meant VFR climb. That makes you responsible for terrain and
possibly traffic. This is very common out here in the West to
expedite getting on course, you don't have to follow a cumbersome DP
to clear terrain.


OK. VFR climb I am familiar with. I've never seen it used when issued a
clearance prior to takeoff, though. Must be a regional thing. I can see
where it could be convenient where terrain is an issue. DGB

No, the exact language in the book is VFR DEPARTURE. (Where did I post
it, I typed the wording exactly as it appeared in the book?)
It is also explained on one of the recent PILOT'S AUDIO UPDATE CD'S.

He meant VFR climb. That makes you responsible for terrain and
possibly traffic. This is very common out here in the West to
expedite getting on course, you don't have to follow a cumbersome DP
to clear terrain.



OK. VFR climb I am familiar with. I've never seen it used when issued
a clearance prior to takeoff, though. Must be a regional thing. I can
see where it could be convenient where terrain is an issue. DGB


No, the exact language in the book is VFR DEPARTURE. (Where did I post
it, I typed the wording exactly as it appeared in the book?)
It is also explained on one of the recent PILOT'S AUDIO UPDATE CD'S.

Yes, and the language you posted makes it very clear that it is not an IFR
operation. Read what it says. A VFR departure is simply departing VFR and
getting a clearance later.

Dave Butler wrote:
He meant VFR climb. That makes you responsible for terrain and
possibly traffic. This is very common out here in the West to
expedite getting on course, you don't have to follow a cumbersome DP
to clear terrain.




OK. VFR climb I am familiar with. I've never seen it used when issued
a clearance prior to takeoff, though. Must be a regional thing. I can
see where it could be convenient where terrain is an issue. DGB



No, the exact language in the book is VFR DEPARTURE. (Where did I post
it, I typed the wording exactly as it appeared in the book?)
It is also explained on one of the recent PILOT'S AUDIO UPDATE CD'S.


Yes, and the language you posted makes it very clear that it is not an
IFR operation. Read what it says. A VFR departure is simply departing
VFR and getting a clearance later.

As I understand it, you have already obtained your IFR clearance, you
are just being held for release until the other inbound/outbound traffic
is assured to be clear of the airspace. You have your IFR clearance, you
depart VFR to provide the separation/obstruction/terrain clearance.
Similar to a VFR ON TOP clearance. You are IFR, but you are at a VFR
altitude and assume separation/obstruction/terrain clearance until such
time as you elect to operate at an IFR altitude or encounter IFR conditions.

john smith wrote:

As I understand it, you have already obtained your IFR clearance, you
are just being held for release until the other inbound/outbound traffic
is assured to be clear of the airspace.

Yes, so far so good.


You have your IFR clearance, you
depart VFR to provide the separation/obstruction/terrain clearance.

You are VFR at this point. Period. No ifs ands or buts. Your IFR
clearance is in no way in effect.


Similar to a VFR ON TOP clearance.

No. An OTP operation is an IFR operation. A VFR departure is just
that, VFR.

john smith wrote:
As I understand it, you have already obtained your IFR clearance, you
are just being held for release until the other inbound/outbound traffic
is assured to be clear of the airspace. You have your IFR clearance, you
depart VFR to provide the separation/obstruction/terrain clearance.
Similar to a VFR ON TOP clearance. You are IFR, but you are at a VFR
altitude and assume separation/obstruction/terrain clearance until such
time as you elect to operate at an IFR altitude or encounter IFR
conditions.

That's not what the snippet you posted says. Have you read it?

Dave Butler wrote:
john smith wrote:

As I understand it, you have already obtained your IFR clearance, you
are just being held for release until the other inbound/outbound
traffic is assured to be clear of the airspace. You have your IFR
clearance, you depart VFR to provide the
separation/obstruction/terrain clearance.
Similar to a VFR ON TOP clearance. You are IFR, but you are at a VFR
altitude and assume separation/obstruction/terrain clearance until
such time as you elect to operate at an IFR altitude or encounter IFR
conditions.

That's not what the snippet you posted says. Have you read it?

How about this from
http://www.faa.gov/atpubs/ATC/Chp4/atc0403.html

4-3-9. VFR RELEASE OF IFR DEPARTURE

When an aircraft which has filed an IFR flight plan requests a VFR
departure through a terminal facility, FSS, or air/ground communications
station:

a. After obtaining, if necessary, approval from the facility/sector
responsible for issuing the IFR clearance, you may authorize an IFR
flight planned aircraft to depart VFR. Inform the pilot of the proper
frequency and, if appropriate, where or when to contact the facility
responsible for issuing the clearance.

PHRASEOLOGY-
VFR DEPARTURE AUTHORIZED. CONTACT (facility) ON (frequency) AT
(location or time if required) FOR CLEARANCE.

b. If the facility/sector responsible for issuing the clearance is
unable to issue a clearance, inform the pilot, and suggest that the
delay be taken on the ground. If the pilot insists upon taking off VFR
and obtaining an IFR clearance in the air, inform the facility/sector
holding the flight plan of the pilot's intentions and, if possible, the
VFR departure time.

john smith wrote:

How about this from
http://www.faa.gov/atpubs/ATC/Chp4/atc0403.html

OK.

Dave Butler wrote:
AFAIK there is no term "VFR departure" that means what you said.

He meant VFR climb. That makes you responsible for terrain and
possibly traffic. This is very common out here in the West to
expedite getting on course, you don't have to follow a cumbersome DP
to clear terrain.

OK. VFR climb I am familiar with. I've never seen it used when issued a
clearance prior to takeoff, though. Must be a regional thing. I can see
where it could be convenient where terrain is an issue. DGB

Found it. Accidently got posted a couple threads down.

This from the newly issued INSTRUMENT PROCEDURES HANDBOOK (FAA-H-8261-1)
Page 2-32...

VFR DEPARTURE
There may be times when you need to fly an IFR flight plan due to the
weather you will encounter at a later time (or if you simply wish to fly
IFR to remain proficient), but the weather outside is clearly VFR. It
may be that you can depart VFR, but you need to get an IFR clearance
shortly after departing the airport. A VFR departure can be used as a
tool that allows you to get off the ground without having to wait for a
time slot in the IFR system, however, departing VFR with the intent of
receiving and IFR clearance in the air can also present serious hazards
worth considering.
A VFR departure dramatically changes the takeoff responsibilities for
you and for ATC. Upon receiving clearance for a VFR departure, you are
cleared to depart; however, you must maintain separation between
yourself and other traffic. You are responsible for maintaining terrain
and obstruction clearance as well as remaining in VFR weather
conditions. You cannot fly in IMC without first receiving your IFR
clearance. Likewise, a VFR departure relieves ATC of these duties, and
basically requires them only to provide you with safety alerts as
workload permits.
Maintain VFR until you have obtained your IFR clearance and have ATC
approval to proceed on course in accordance with your clearance. If you
accept this clearance and are below the minimum IFR altitude for
operations in the area, you accept responsibiility for
terrain/obstruction clearance until you reach that altitude.