Getting the MOCA

Robert M. Gary wrote:
Sam Spade wrote:

Dan wrote:


What are the odds of getting the MOCA instead of the MEA going from the
Phoenix area to Santa Fe? Anyone know? I like to be IFR for the
services, but the MEAs are a pain....

--Dan


The MOCA cannot be assigned except within 22 miles of the VOR station,
nor can you legally request it. It's your responsibility to use a
Victor airway within the rules.


That's actually not true. It is legal to fly any altitude you are
assigned. The controller's minimum altitude in that area may be lower
than your MEA.

-Robert


A center MIA in some cases is, indeed, lower than a particular Victor
Airways MEA and, in some cases, the MIA may be higher.

And, if ATC is willing to provide the service, which includes radar
monitoring of your progress when assigned a Victor Airway below the MEA,
that is, of course legal.

But, it isn't assignment of the Victor Airway because the Victor Airway
simply doesn't exist below its MEA (or MOCA beyond 22 miles) as a matter
of regulation.

That is why the careful controller states, in such circumstances, "via
the radials of Victor such-and-such."

"Sam Spade" wrote in message
news:fWapg.77$_M.1@fed1read04...

And, if ATC is willing to provide the service, which includes radar
monitoring of your progress when assigned a Victor Airway below the MEA,
that is, of course legal.


Only if a MOCA applies and then only within 22 miles of a VOR. Radar
monitoring is not required.


§ 91.177 Minimum altitudes for IFR operations.
(a) Operation of aircraft at minimum altitudes. Except when necessary for
takeoff or landing, no person may operate an aircraft under IFR below-

(1) The applicable minimum altitudes prescribed in parts 95 and 97 of this
chapter; or

(2) If no applicable minimum altitude is prescribed in those parts-

(i) In the case of operations over an area designated as a mountainous area
in part 95, an altitude of 2,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a
horizontal distance of 4 nautical miles from the course to be flown; or

(ii) In any other case, an altitude of 1,000 feet above the highest obstacle
within a horizontal distance of 4 nautical miles from the course to be
flown.

However, if both a MEA and a MOCA are prescribed for a particular route or
route segment, a person may operate an aircraft below the MEA down to, but
not below, the MOCA, when within 22 nautical miles of the VOR concerned
(based on the pilot's reasonable estimate of that distance).

(b) Climb. Climb to a higher minimum IFR altitude shall begin immediately
after passing the point beyond which that minimum altitude applies, except
that when ground obstructions intervene, the point beyond which that higher
minimum altitude applies shall be crossed at or above the applicable MCA.




But, it isn't assignment of the Victor Airway because the Victor Airway
simply doesn't exist below its MEA (or MOCA beyond 22 miles) as a matter
of regulation.



That's not correct. Victor airways, unless otherwise specified, extend
upward from 1,200 feet to, but not including, 18,000 feet MSL.

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Sam Spade" wrote in message
news:fWapg.77$_M.1@fed1read04...

And, if ATC is willing to provide the service, which includes radar
monitoring of your progress when assigned a Victor Airway below the MEA,
that is, of course legal.



Only if a MOCA applies and then only within 22 miles of a VOR. Radar
monitoring is not required.

Asked and answered previously.


§ 91.177 Minimum altitudes for IFR operations.
(a) Operation of aircraft at minimum altitudes. Except when necessary for
takeoff or landing, no person may operate an aircraft under IFR below-

(1) The applicable minimum altitudes prescribed in parts 95 and 97 of this
chapter; or

(2) If no applicable minimum altitude is prescribed in those parts-

(i) In the case of operations over an area designated as a mountainous area
in part 95, an altitude of 2,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a
horizontal distance of 4 nautical miles from the course to be flown; or

(ii) In any other case, an altitude of 1,000 feet above the highest obstacle
within a horizontal distance of 4 nautical miles from the course to be
flown.

However, if both a MEA and a MOCA are prescribed for a particular route or
route segment, a person may operate an aircraft below the MEA down to, but
not below, the MOCA, when within 22 nautical miles of the VOR concerned
(based on the pilot's reasonable estimate of that distance).

(b) Climb. Climb to a higher minimum IFR altitude shall begin immediately
after passing the point beyond which that minimum altitude applies, except
that when ground obstructions intervene, the point beyond which that higher
minimum altitude applies shall be crossed at or above the applicable MCA.




But, it isn't assignment of the Victor Airway because the Victor Airway
simply doesn't exist below its MEA (or MOCA beyond 22 miles) as a matter
of regulation.




That's not correct. Victor airways, unless otherwise specified, extend
upward from 1,200 feet to, but not including, 18,000 feet MSL.


That is not correct. Your confusing Part 71 with Part 95. Part 71
provides the Class E airspace for a Victor Airway. Part 95 provides the
minimum altitudes for a Victor Airway. They are not the same.

"Sam Spade" wrote in message
news:sYrpg.101$_M.9@fed1read04...

Asked and answered previously.


Your answer was wrong.



That is not correct. Your confusing Part 71 with Part 95. Part 71
provides the Class E airspace for a Victor Airway. Part 95 provides the
minimum altitudes for a Victor Airway. They are not the same.


I'm confused? Then please enlighten me. Cite the regulation that supports
your assertion that Victor airways do not exist below the MEA or MOCA beyond
22 miles from the VOR.

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Sam Spade" wrote in message
news:sYrpg.101$_M.9@fed1read04...

Asked and answered previously.



Your answer was wrong.



That is not correct. Your confusing Part 71 with Part 95. Part 71
provides the Class E airspace for a Victor Airway. Part 95 provides the
minimum altitudes for a Victor Airway. They are not the same.



I'm confused? Then please enlighten me. Cite the regulation that supports
your assertion that Victor airways do not exist below the MEA or MOCA beyond
22 miles from the VOR.


I cited it previously. You either cannot or will not read the references.

"Sam Spade" wrote in message
news:fLwpg.117$_M.101@fed1read04...

I cited it previously. You either cannot or will not read the references.


You provided no reference.