IFR logging question - is this legal?

T o d d P a t t i s t wrote:
"Brad" wrote:

P1 seat: a pilot legal to be PIC under VFR.
P2 seat: a pilot legal to be PIC under IFR (but no CFI/CFII rating).

Can the P1 also log it? I'd hope so!

Only if P1 is sole manipulator of the controls, rated for the category
and class of airplane,

Correct.

and using a view limiting device (91.109) that
would require a second crew member.

This isn't necessary for *P1* to log it. He's sole
manipulator.

That second crew member of course
would need to act as PIC. Without a view limiting device, two pilots
are not necessary.

Irrelevant as to P1's right to log.

Except that he's asking if they can both log it. Quote: "Can the P1
also log it? I'd hope so!"

They can't BOTH log PIC time.

Brad wrote:
They can't BOTH log PIC time.

Actually they can if P1 is under the hood and flying and P2 is acting
as PIC.

-Robert, CFII

Robert M. Gary wrote:
Brad wrote:
They can't BOTH log PIC time.

Actually they can if P1 is under the hood and flying and P2 is acting
as PIC.

-Robert, CFII

Read my original reply. I already addressed that.

On 06/30/06 13:17, Robert M. Gary wrote:
Brad wrote:
They can't BOTH log PIC time.

Actually they can if P1 is under the hood and flying and P2 is acting
as PIC.

Oops, I don't think that's true. This was discussed here at length about
two months ago. The issue is that "acting as PIC" doesn't give a person
the right to "log PIC".

When reading the regs, I thought the pilot not flying would be able to
log PIC as a result of 61.51 (c) (e) (1) (iii). However, the overwhelming
consensus was that the specific reg referred to situations in which
the pilot not flying was a required flight crew member based on the
type certificate, and not because the pilot flying was under the hood
and not instrument rated.

The pilot flying certainly can log PIC as sole manipulator of the
controls (provided he is certificated for the class/category of
aircraft).

The pilot not flying would be able to log PIC if he was a CFI, but
that was not the case presented by the OP.


-Robert, CFII




--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA

Mark Hansen wrote:
On 06/30/06 13:17, Robert M. Gary wrote:
Brad wrote:
They can't BOTH log PIC time.

Actually they can if P1 is under the hood and flying and P2 is acting
as PIC.

Oops, I don't think that's true. This was discussed here at length about
two months ago. The issue is that "acting as PIC" doesn't give a person
the right to "log PIC".

When reading the regs, I thought the pilot not flying would be able to
log PIC as a result of 61.51 (c) (e) (1) (iii). However, the overwhelming
consensus was that the specific reg referred to situations in which
the pilot not flying was a required flight crew member based on the
type certificate, and not because the pilot flying was under the hood
and not instrument rated.

The pilot flying certainly can log PIC as sole manipulator of the
controls (provided he is certificated for the class/category of
aircraft).

The pilot not flying would be able to log PIC if he was a CFI, but
that was not the case presented by the OP.

--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA


No, both the sole manipulator of the controls and the safety pilot can
log time, regardless of whether the safety pilot is a flight instructor
or not. If the safety pilot acts as PIC he can log that time as pic
time. If the hooded pilot acts as PIC, then the safety pilot could log
second-in-command time as a required crewmember. He's required under
91.109