Silly controller

In article . com,
"Robert M. Gary" wrote:

The other day I was doing a VFR practice approach into Tracy, CA when
the controller told me "reporting canceling IFR this freq, or on ground
via land line...". I told him "uh, ok canceling IFR, I didn't believe I
was IFR" (because I hadn't asked for or received an IFR clearance).
The controller told me that any aircraft on an approach clearance is
IFR for the purposes of the approach. I guess even controllers can be
students?

I had a similar experience Wednesday evening with the VOR/DME GPS A
practice approach into Tracy in good VMC. I explicitly asked for a
practice approach, negotiated with the controller for the missed, and
got switched to CTAF fairly early on. The approach went fairly normally,
then when I came back to him on the (new, improved) missed and asked for
flight following back to Hayward, he says "report cancelling IFR". I
thought maybe he'd confused us with someone else, so I repeated the
request, and got the same terse response. So I cancelled IFR, even
though it was a practice approach; there was no mode c code change or
any other change after cancelling IFR.

It wasn't a big deal or anything, but it hasn't happened to me before
with NorCal Approach, and I've done that and surrounding approaches many
times as practice approaches. I just thought maybe I'd said something
wrong earlier when I'd asked for the approach, especially since I'd
cancelled the original clearance (from Hayward) much earlier in the
flight when doing a bunch of practice approaches at Stockton with the
same controller...

Hamish

Hamish Reid writes:
I had a similar experience Wednesday evening with the VOR/DME GPS A
practice approach into Tracy in good VMC. I explicitly asked for a
practice approach, negotiated with the controller for the missed, and
got switched to CTAF fairly early on. The approach went fairly normally,
then when I came back to him on the (new, improved) missed and asked for
flight following back to Hayward, he says "report cancelling IFR". I
thought maybe he'd confused us with someone else, so I repeated the
request, and got the same terse response. So I cancelled IFR, even
though it was a practice approach; there was no mode c code change or
any other change after cancelling IFR.

When he gave you the clearance for the approach, did he say
"Maintain VFR?" If not, you were really IFR. And that makes
sense, since he subsequently asked you to report when you were
cancelling your IFR clearance. The above exchange sounds to me
like he gave you a new pop-up IFR clearance -- what you requested:
direct Hayward. The part where you asked for "practice" and "flight
following" seems inconsistent with what he was saying back to you.
Are you sure it was the same guy who you started the approach with?

"Christopher C. Stacy" wrote in message
...

When he gave you the clearance for the approach, did he say
"Maintain VFR?" If not, you were really IFR.


No. You're really IFR when you hear "Cleared to..."

Umm, I would like to see this cancellation scenario happen when the IFR
student is on his check ride with either an FAA examiner or DER in the
plane... Watching two branches of the federal government duke it out
could be highly entertaining...

Anyway, if you are not truly VFR or if you need that IFR approach for
currency there is that word in the regs, "Unable", for a reason... A
single word, unadorned - and no further explanation will be offered by
me any more than he did. The controller is then obligated to continue
to handle you IFR...
Now, having said that, being normally a cooperative cuss, and if I am
just shooting the approach to stay sharp, and he is busy, etc., I won't
care, I'll simply grunt, "roger that, 57 pop", hit the 1200 button and
continue the approach...

denny

Denny wrote:
.. Watching two branches of the federal government duke it out
could be highly entertaining...


It's all the FAA. They often never talk to each other.

"Denny" wrote in message
oups.com...
Umm, I would like to see this cancellation scenario happen when the IFR
student is on his check ride with either an FAA examiner or DER in the
plane... Watching two branches of the federal government duke it out
could be highly entertaining...

Which two of the three (Judicial, Legislative, Executive)?

Are you one of those modern public school graduates? :~)

"Steven P. McNicoll" writes:

"Christopher C. Stacy" wrote in message
...

When he gave you the clearance for the approach, did he say
"Maintain VFR?" If not, you were really IFR.


No. You're really IFR when you hear "Cleared to..."

Like in, "Cleared for the ILS runway 23 at Foobar maintain 2000 until established" ?

Christopher C. Stacy wrote:
"Steven P. McNicoll" writes:

"Christopher C. Stacy" wrote in message
...

When he gave you the clearance for the approach, did he say
"Maintain VFR?" If not, you were really IFR.


No. You're really IFR when you hear "Cleared to..."

Like in, "Cleared for the ILS runway 23 at Foobar maintain 2000 until established" ?
Or "Cleared to Land"

Word games aside, Steven is right. The difference between being IFR and
VFR in controlled airspace is being told "cleared to foobar".

-Robert

Robert M. Gary wrote:


Word games aside, Steven is right. The difference between being IFR and
VFR in controlled airspace is being told "cleared to foobar".

-Robert


The system is designed to process a formally filed IFR flight plan from
one airport to another. The formal tower-en route program in Southern
California works, too, because it is formalized.

Pop-ups without a filed flight plan, and local training flights
sometimes get mishandled because, unlike the foregoing, they just aren't
in the "system" in a formal sense.

"Robert M. Gary" writes:

Christopher C. Stacy wrote:
"Steven P. McNicoll" writes:

"Christopher C. Stacy" wrote in message
...

When he gave you the clearance for the approach, did he say
"Maintain VFR?" If not, you were really IFR.


No. You're really IFR when you hear "Cleared to..."

Like in, "Cleared for the ILS runway 23 at Foobar maintain 2000 until established" ?
Or "Cleared to Land"

Word games aside, Steven is right. The difference between being IFR and
VFR in controlled airspace is being told "cleared to foobar".

The instruction "Cleared for the ILS runway 23 at Foobar maintain 2000 until established"
contains "cleared", a route (which is even a charted IFR procedure), an altitude,
and a clearance limit (landing Foobar airport, or executing the published missed
approach procedure). How is that not an IFR clearance?

I think it is, unless the controller adds the words "maintain VFR".
When I want a practice approach and the controller fails to say "VFR",
I add it back in to try and make sure, like:
"Cherokee 97R cleared for the ILS 29 maintain VFR".