So there I was...

On Thu, 28 Dec 2006 23:04:11 GMT, Jose
wrote:

Kinda have to agree with you Jose. In my instrument training, I never
missed the AI when instruments "failed".

More to the point, with the AI tumbled, it still didn't bother me (at
least in the sim). Never been IMC for real with a tumbled AI though.

Even when you are real proficient at partial panel for some reason you
end up hading a difficult time ignoring that AI laying over on it's
side and your sense of balance gets attuned to the darn thing. One of
the warnings is when you feel a bit of vertigo, or disorientation.



Jose
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Even when you are real proficient at partial panel for some reason you
end up hading a difficult time ignoring that AI laying over on it's
side and your sense of balance gets attuned to the darn thing.

That's what I've been told, and it may be different in a real airplane.
However, I was quite surprised that in the sim, I did not get any of
that. I found it trivial to ignore it. However, I did find myself
steering to the dead DG. What are other pilot's experiences with a
visible failed AI in a (non-motion) sim, and in a real airplane?

Jose
--
He who laughs, lasts.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Jose" wrote in message t...
Even when you are real proficient at partial panel for some reason you
end up hading a difficult time ignoring that AI laying over on it's
side and your sense of balance gets attuned to the darn thing.

That's what I've been told, and it may be different in a real airplane.
However, I was quite surprised that in the sim, I did not get any of
that. I found it trivial to ignore it. However, I did find myself
steering to the dead DG. What are other pilot's experiences with a
visible failed AI in a (non-motion) sim, and in a real airplane?

Jose

Some years ago, the AI in my Flight Director began to roll over
as I was being vectored to an ILS approach into Salt Lake City.
I thought I could ignore it by using the copilot's AI instead. Wrong!
That was very difficult to do, and if I hadn't broken out of clouds
about halfway down the ILS course, I'd probably have gone missed.
It's much better to cover the failed display if you plan to disregard it.

Some years ago, the AI in my Flight Director began to roll over
as I was being vectored to an ILS approach into Salt Lake City.
I thought I could ignore it by using the copilot's AI instead. Wrong!

Thanks. How did it go? (did you not include the copilot's AI in the
scan sufficiently? Did the tumbled AI keep grabbing your eyeballs?)

It's much better to cover the failed display if you plan to disregard it.

I wholeheartedly agree. I just found it odd that, in myself, the DG was
harder to ignore than the AI.

Jose
--
He who laughs, lasts.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Jose" wrote in message et...
Some years ago, the AI in my Flight Director began to roll over
as I was being vectored to an ILS approach into Salt Lake City.
I thought I could ignore it by using the copilot's AI instead. Wrong!

Thanks. How did it go? (did you not include the copilot's AI in the
scan sufficiently? Did the tumbled AI keep grabbing your eyeballs?)

It's much better to cover the failed display if you plan to disregard it.

I wholeheartedly agree. I just found it odd that, in myself, the DG was
harder to ignore than the AI.

Jose
--
At the time, I *thought* I was including the copilot's AI in my scan OK,
but I'd say the subliminal message of the tilted Flight Director was strong,
and I kept "correcting" by it without realizing I was doing so.
The habit pattern of following the Flight Director probably overcame
the conscious intent of following the copilot's instrument.

The habit pattern of following the Flight Director probably overcame

Oh.. you got one of them things. I just have a black and blue ball with
lines on it.

Jose
--
He who laughs, lasts.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Jose" wrote in message t...
The habit pattern of following the Flight Director probably overcame

Oh.. you got one of them things. I just have a black and blue ball with
lines on it.

Jose
--

Yep, *one* of them things is correct.
My copilot's side has a "black and blue ball with lines on it". :-)
I can tell you, Flight Directors are very much nicer.

On Fri, 29 Dec 2006 10:34:54 -0500, Jose
wrote:

Even when you are real proficient at partial panel for some reason you
end up hading a difficult time ignoring that AI laying over on it's
side and your sense of balance gets attuned to the darn thing.

That's what I've been told, and it may be different in a real airplane.
However, I was quite surprised that in the sim, I did not get any of
that. I found it trivial to ignore it. However, I did find myself
steering to the dead DG. What are other pilot's experiences with a
visible failed AI in a (non-motion) sim, and in a real airplane?

It's probably due to three things, maybe more. One is the sense of
motion, but I think the much higher work load, and much higher mental
workload really make the difference. When under real pressure we tend
to revert to training and only a few hundred hours of following the AI
followed by an unexpected change to Partial panel leaves the pilot
with some conditioning that is extremely difficult to ignore.

Jose
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

When under real pressure we tend
to revert to training and only a few hundred hours of following the AI

Maybe then it's because I don't usually follow the AI. I use the TC,
altimeter, and DG as primary. Just a thought.

Jose
--
He who laughs, lasts.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

In article ,
Jose wrote:

Even when you are real proficient at partial panel for some reason you
end up hading a difficult time ignoring that AI laying over on it's
side and your sense of balance gets attuned to the darn thing.

That's what I've been told, and it may be different in a real airplane.
However, I was quite surprised that in the sim, I did not get any of
that. I found it trivial to ignore it. However, I did find myself
steering to the dead DG. What are other pilot's experiences with a
visible failed AI in a (non-motion) sim, and in a real airplane?

Jose

Last summer I had my vacuum fail in IMC over a 200' ceiling. Added some
excitement to an otherwise boring day.

My experience was similar to yours. While I was in IMC, I had no problem
ignoring the AI but I had to cover the DG so I wouldn't keep looking at
it. It was really annoying having to take my eyes off the instruments to
look up at the compass which is mounted just about on the ceiling of my
plane.

The funny thing is after I landed and the weather cleared up I flew
another 1/2 hour flight in VMC to get to a field where they could
replace the vacuum pump. During that flight for some reason I kept
finding myself "noticing" the AI and had to keep telling myself, "Just
look out the window and stop following the AI, idiot."