Busting airspace question

On Feb 1, 7:53 am, "alice" wrote:
On Jan 31, 9:57 pm, "Robert M. Gary" wrote:

On Jan 31, 4:33 pm, "Dallas" wrote:

A friend of mine got a 30 day suspension and a bad record for 5 years
on his solo cross country. Personally, I require my students to use
flight following in case they get into the class C by mistake.
-Robert

Robert,
A 30 day suspension for what?Did he contest this in court?What
happened to his instructor?

He busted the airspace so there wasn't much to contest. I'm sure if
he'd gone to court and lost the FAA would haved asked for at least 90
days (this is typical, 30 days now or make us go to court and we'll
ask for 90). He did have to report it to his insurance co for
something like 5 years, after that the FAA removed it from his record.

How does using flight following absolve you from guilt when you
violate a reg?

If he has flight following he's not violated any reg.

-robert

Robert M. Gary wrote:

If he has flight following he's not violated any reg.



A gentle reminder that the OP asked about Bravo, not Charlie space.

You certainly can bust Bravo with a flight following. Some controllers
are very good and professional about helping you not bust it. Others
might be too busy, not care, or on that rare occasion, devious, but it's
up to the pilot to make sure clearance is granted.

A student pilot on flight following clipping the edge of Bravo is possible.

B A R R Y writes:

A gentle reminder that the OP asked about Bravo, not Charlie space.

You certainly can bust Bravo with a flight following. Some controllers
are very good and professional about helping you not bust it. Others
might be too busy, not care, or on that rare occasion, devious, but it's
up to the pilot to make sure clearance is granted.

A student pilot on flight following clipping the edge of Bravo is possible.

How does ATC prove that someone has entered Bravo airspace?

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Mxsmanic wrote:

How does ATC prove that someone has entered Bravo airspace?

Radar

Gig 601XL Builder writes:

Radar

How does radar prove it?

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On Feb 1, 6:02 pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
Gig 601XL Builder writes:
Radar

How does radar prove it?

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RADAR is an acronym for Radio Detection and Ranging. The Ranging
part pretty well covers postion determination. Do some reading on
Wikpedia or somewhere--lotsa sources can explain Radar for you.

Mxsmanic wrote:

Radar

How does radar prove it?

Pretty much the same way busting a traffic law
right under a police officer's nose does it.
Besides they do keep a record as well.

--Sylvain

Sylvain writes:

Pretty much the same way busting a traffic law
right under a police officer's nose does it.
Besides they do keep a record as well.

Think like a lawyer. Radar provides position and distance, but that
is all. To determine whether or not a pilot has entered Class B
without authorization, you also need a way to determine the boundaries
of that airspace, something that radar does not provide. And you must
show that all the information available to the pilot specified the
same limits as whatever source was used by ATC. If there is a
discrepancy, and the pilot's information shows that he was clear of
the airspace, the pilot is in the clear. If ATC told him he was
inside the airspace, then there is a conflict, and much depends on
exactly how large the error was. If the chart shows him indisputably
outside the airspace but ATC insists otherwise, the pilot, as pilot in
command, can ignore what ATC says for safety reasons, based on the
assumption that the controller is incompetent or is deliberately
misleading the pilot.

There are many possible scenarios, only some of which favor ATC.

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Mxsmanic wrote:
Gig 601XL Builder writes:

Radar

How does radar prove it?

While I fully beleive you are stupid. I don't for a second beleive you are
THAT stupid.

Gig 601XL Builder writes:

While I fully beleive you are stupid. I don't for a second beleive you are
THAT stupid.

I've explained the legal ramifications in a previous post. Radar
shows your position and distance but cannot be used by itself to
determine whether or not you are in a given airspace. For that, you
need some other additional reference.

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