Busting airspace question

How does ATC prove that someone has entered Bravo airspace?
Radar

While true, radar doesn't seem up to the task for a clip. The three
radar tracks of the Cirrus crash over the East River in NY differ by
enough to convince me that radar could easily indict somebody who was
actually outside the airspace.

Jose
--
Humans are pack animals. Above all things, they have a deep need to
follow something, be it a leader, a creed, or a mob. Whosoever fully
understands this holds the world in his hands.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Jose wrote:
How does ATC prove that someone has entered Bravo airspace?
Radar

While true, radar doesn't seem up to the task for a clip. The three
radar tracks of the Cirrus crash over the East River in NY differ by
enough to convince me that radar could easily indict somebody who was
actually outside the airspace.

Jose

Are you talking about the tracks you and many of us saw via online services
or honest to God FAA radar tracks?

Are you talking about the tracks you and many of us saw via online services
or honest to God FAA radar tracks?

I'm talking about the tracks I saw on the web. I presume these are FAA
radar tracks. They (allegedly) came from the Newark tower, the LGA
tower and the JFK tower, or something like that - three separate nearby
radar facilities.

Jose
--
Humans are pack animals. Above all things, they have a deep need to
follow something, be it a leader, a creed, or a mob. Whosoever fully
understands this holds the world in his hands.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

B A R R Y wrote:
You certainly can bust Bravo with a flight following. Some controllers
are very good and professional about helping you not bust it. Others
might be too busy, not care, or on that rare occasion, devious, but it's
up to the pilot to make sure clearance is granted.

On my first cross-country solo, the controller cleared me into the Bravo
without me asking for it. (My home airport is underneath the shelf.)

I didn't actually enter the Bravo, since I was a student at the time, but
this is an example of the controller helping you. :-)

.... Alan
--
Alan Gerber
PP-ASEL
gerber AT panix DOT com

Alan Gerber wrote:

On my first cross-country solo, the controller cleared me into the Bravo
without me asking for it. (My home airport is underneath the shelf.)

I didn't actually enter the Bravo, since I was a student at the time, but
this is an example of the controller helping you. :-)

... Alan

Exactly!

I've had that happen many times heading through NYC. As I'm flying
across Long Island Sound on VFR flight following, as I'm preparing to
ask, I get "58S cleared to enter Bravo airspace". If I'm headed through
to the south, they'll also often vector me to the Colts Neck VOR,
straight over JFK.

Without FF, you're calling up and asking for clearance out of the blue.

With FF, they've already got an idea where you're headed, you've already
got a code, they expect you to ask for clearance, and I think it makes
their job that much easier.

A friend of mine got a 30 day suspension and a bad record for 5 years
on his solo cross country. Personally, I require my students to use
flight following in case they get into the class C by mistake.
-Robert
He busted the airspace so there wasn't much to contest. I'm sure if
he'd gone to court and lost the FAA would haved asked for at least 90
days (this is typical, 30 days now or make us go to court and we'll
ask for 90).

Robert,
Nothing to contest?????! What???!
There is always something to contest.How strong was the FAA's evidence?
Who was this pilots attorney?When in doubt, file a NASA report.Just
because the FAA ask, it doesnt mean you have to take a violation.It
also doesnt mean there will be a greater penalty if you contest a
certificate action. As a CFI you should know this.

If he has flight following he's not violated any reg.

I hope you dont teach your students this! You cant enter class B
unless you have a specific clearance to do so.AND, just because your
students request flight following it shouldnt mean that they can
meander into any airspace they wish.What do your students do when
flight following isnt available?Your attitude is kinda dangerous.

-robert
KM

"alice" wrote in message
Who was this pilots attorney?

There's no way I'm paying a lawyer to fight a 30 day suspension.


I hope you dont teach your students this! You cant enter class B

He pretty clearly said class C - as in Charlie.

On Feb 1, 2:18 pm, "Steve Foley" wrote:
"alice" wrote in message
Who was this pilots attorney?

There's no way I'm paying a lawyer to fight a 30 day suspension.

Was this person you?The problem is that you dont know what the penalty
is before hand.If you get a letter of investigation it would be a good
idea to talk to your attorney.Its like the old saying "Anyone who
provides his own legal counsel has a fool for a client"


I hope you dont teach your students this! You cant enter class B

He pretty clearly said class C - as in Charlie.

Actualy, he didnt say what the suspension was for.Besides, his
asumption that you just use flight following to absolve yourself of
airspace worries is kind of silly.

"Steve Foley" wrote in message
news:BOswh.9000$635.8674@trndny05...
"alice" wrote in message
Who was this pilots attorney?

There's no way I'm paying a lawyer to fight a 30 day suspension.

Yea, I agree 30 days of no flying or pay an attorney thousands of dollars
take time to go to court etc.? I'd take the 30 days!

NW_Pilot wrote:
Yea, I agree 30 days of no flying or pay an attorney thousands of dollars
take time to go to court etc.? I'd take the 30 days!

And then keep flying *anyway*... Hell, who the **** do they think they
are telling me I can't fly my own plane?