Busting airspace question

Alan Gerber writes:

It doesn't absolve you. It increases the odds that you won't enter the
airspace inadvertantly, and there's a chance they'll clear you without you
even asking for it. (And, for class C, you're already talking with them,
so there's no violation.)

While flight following is not an automatic clearance into controlled
airspace, a controller who was providing flight following and failed
to mention a potential unauthorized intrusion into controlled airspace
could be held to not be doing his duty. The pilot would not be
relieved of his responsibility (he's supposed to know for himself that
he is entering Class B), but the controller would seem negligent if he
failed to bring up something this important.

--
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Mxsmanic wrote:
Alan Gerber writes:

It doesn't absolve you. It increases the odds that you won't enter the
airspace inadvertantly, and there's a chance they'll clear you without you
even asking for it. (And, for class C, you're already talking with them,
so there's no violation.)

While flight following is not an automatic clearance into controlled
airspace,

It is authorization in all but class B.



a controller who was providing flight following and failed
to mention a potential unauthorized intrusion into controlled airspace
could be held to not be doing his duty.

No, wrong. You need a clearance into class B. Period.

Newps writes:

It is authorization in all but class B.

So a VFR pilot can climb into Class A once he has flight following,
right?

The other classes don't require an authorization, so flight following
doesn't really provide authorization for anything.

No, wrong. You need a clearance into class B. Period.

That's not what I said. A controller who knowingly allows a pilot to
enter Class B without warning him could be considered negligent,
irrespective of any wrongdoing on the part of the pilot.

--
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Mxsmanic wrote:
Newps writes:

It is authorization in all but class B.

So a VFR pilot can climb into Class A once he has flight following,
right?



Spoken like a true sim pilot.





The other classes don't require an authorization, so flight following
doesn't really provide authorization for anything.

No, wrong. You need a clearance into class B. Period.

That's not what I said. A controller who knowingly allows a pilot to
enter Class B without warning him could be considered negligent,
irrespective of any wrongdoing on the part of the pilot.

No he cannot. The rule is very clear. You want in to the class B?
Then get a clearance.

Newps writes:

Spoken like a true sim pilot.

No, spoken like someone who sees the flaws in arguments. You said "it
is authorization in all but Class B," therefore it is authorization in
Class A, C, D, E, (F), and G--but in fact this is incorrect, as I
demonstrated.

No he cannot. The rule is very clear. You want in to the class B?
Then get a clearance.

That's not what I said.

If a controller fails to tell a landing pilot that the runway for
which he has been cleared still is occupied by another aircraft, has
the controller done anything wrong? The responsibility for avoiding
the aircraft on the runway belongs with the pilot. Does that absolve
the controller of all responsibility?

--
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Mxsmanic wrote:

Newps writes:


Spoken like a true sim pilot.


No, spoken like someone who sees the flaws in arguments. You said "it
is authorization in all but Class B," therefore it is authorization in
Class A, C, D, E, (F), and G--but in fact this is incorrect, as I
demonstrated.

Like I said, spoken like a sim pilot. No grip on reality.




No he cannot. The rule is very clear. You want in to the class B?
Then get a clearance.


That's not what I said.

If a controller fails to tell a landing pilot that the runway for
which he has been cleared still is occupied by another aircraft, has
the controller done anything wrong?

No, that's called anticipated separation. The runway does not need to
be clear of traffic before the next one is cleared to land.



The responsibility for avoiding
the aircraft on the runway belongs with the pilot.

It primarily belongs to the controller.

In article ,
Newps wrote:

Like I said, spoken like a sim pilot. No grip on reality.

play a game isn't being a pilot.

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

Newps wrote:
If a controller fails to tell a landing pilot that the runway for
which he has been cleared still is occupied by another aircraft, has
the controller done anything wrong?

No, that's called anticipated separation. The runway does not need to
be clear of traffic before the next one is cleared to land.

I've been cleared #4 to land on occasion. That doesn't even *count* the
aircraft that's still on the runway. (Of course, being cleared #4 does
imply that there will be other aircraft on the runway before you land, but
even when cleared without any other traffic, they don't mention anybody
who's actually on the runway, in anticipation of them being clear in
time.)

Of course, occasionally the anticipated separation doesn't materialize. I
had to go around once or twice because of that. I think one might have
even been on my first solo.

.... Alan
--
Alan Gerber
PP-ASEL
gerber AT panix DOT com