bad vectors, no hand off

Controllers forgetting to hand you off to tower is a fairly common problem
in the IFR environment, especially when it's practice. I just say something
like "Should I got to tower" and that usually does the trick.

--

Wyatt Emmerich
President, Emmerich Newspapers
601-977-0470

PO Box 16709, Jackson MS 39236
Shipping: 246 Briarwood Drive, Suite 101, Jackson MS 39206
"Bob Gardner" wrote in message
...
No question that you got bad service, but I would suggest that the PIC be
more assertive. If you don't get what you want, ask for it. In the future,
file IFR and turn your "practice" into reality.

Bob Gardner

"Lurker" wrote in message
...
Flyers,

I just want some of your thoughts on this. My plane partner and I went
out
last night to do some practice instrument approaches. He wore the hood
and
I was the right-seat safety pilot.

ATC was not too busy and it was a nice VFR night. First, after we asked
for
a practice ILS 24 into KPNE they acknowledged our request and then forgot
about us and had us continue flying away from the field for sometime.
This
continued until I finally asked if they were going to vector us.

"Oh...no...I just figured you'd turn toward Yardley."

Hmmm...ok we turn toward Yardley. He then had us climb to 3000. He
vectored us onto the approach within 1/8 mile of the final approach fix,
had
us maintain 3000 (FAF alt on chart is 2000) and cleared us for the
approach.
My partner was struggling to get the plane down and I'm looking out for
planes, our attitude, the glide slope, his airspeed,...IOW...everything.

I suddenly realize that we are on a 1/2 mile final (way above the glide
slope) and we were never handed off to the tower. I push the flip-flop
button and contact the tower and ask if we missed a handoff.

The tower responds, "I've been waiting for you to contact us"

"I'm sorry. Did approach hand us off?"

"No...but that doesn't matter...it's your responsibility. You need to
realize that there is a problem before you're on a 1/2 mile final."

To make a long story short...we were given back to approach and did the
approach into our field (VOR-A). We were handed off to another approach
controller. We asked for a practice VOR-A into N14 with vectors. This
controller never vectored us and merrily watched us (or didn't watch us)
fly
right through the approach course, never vectoring us, never assigning an
altitude and never clearing us for the approach.

I get on the radio and asked if he wanted us to fly through the approach
course.

"Ahhh...no...just intercept the approach course and maintain 2100 until
PONDE (the FAF)..." he then cleared us for the approach.

What was this? A bad night for controllers? Were we second class
citizens?
And why did I get bawled out for the approach controllers forgetful
hand-off?

Kobra

"Wyatt Emmerich" wrote in
:

Controllers forgetting to hand you off to tower is a fairly common
problem in the IFR environment, especially when it's practice. I just
say something like "Should I got to tower" and that usually does the
trick.

*smile*

If I don't get transferred to tower within a couple of miles from the FAF,
I was told by my instructor to "report" my position to appraoch controllers
as a memory jogger that I am still with them.

I.E. Jackson Approach 43L one mile outside Brenz.

Usually, approach will come back and then say 43L, contact tower on 1xx.xx

Allen

On Thu, 08 Feb 2007 23:22:15 GMT, A Lieberma
wrote:

"Wyatt Emmerich" wrote in
:

Controllers forgetting to hand you off to tower is a fairly common
problem in the IFR environment, especially when it's practice. I just
say something like "Should I got to tower" and that usually does the
trick.

*smile*

If I don't get transferred to tower within a couple of miles from the FAF,
I was told by my instructor to "report" my position to appraoch controllers
as a memory jogger that I am still with them.

I.E. Jackson Approach 43L one mile outside Brenz.

Usually, approach will come back and then say 43L, contact tower on 1xx.xx

Allen

In Actual: Ahhh... *** approach, this is XXX 20 North at 4,000. How
far do you want me to keep going for traffic avoidance? Ahhhh XXX ...
turn heading 180 and expect vectors to the ILS.

Know what to expect when and ask why if not.
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Roger wrote in
:

In Actual: Ahhh... *** approach, this is XXX 20 North at 4,000. How
far do you want me to keep going for traffic avoidance? Ahhhh XXX ...
turn heading 180 and expect vectors to the ILS.

I knew instrument flying required patience, but you exceeded the patience
of Job *big smile*.

Musta woke the controller up from a nap?

Allen

On Fri, 09 Feb 2007 04:43:22 GMT, A Lieberma
wrote:

Roger wrote in
:

In Actual: Ahhh... *** approach, this is XXX 20 North at 4,000. How
far do you want me to keep going for traffic avoidance? Ahhhh XXX ...
turn heading 180 and expect vectors to the ILS.

I knew instrument flying required patience, but you exceeded the patience
of Job *big smile*.

At 3 miles a minute it doesn't take very long and when you are busy 5
or 6 minutes can go by in a hurry.

They were really busy and it was hard to get a word in.:-))
At least the ride was smooth even if I couldn't see anything.

That was the same day and same airport where they told me to follow
the airliner ahead when I couldn't see past the Deb's wing tips. I
believe my reply was something to the effect of "I would if I could,
but I can't see my own wingtips". Which was followed by another...
"Uhhh... when you break out, follow the airliner." :-))


Musta woke the controller up from a nap?

I think it certainly woke him up, but not from a nap:-))

Over the years I've had them make just about as many mistakes as I
have. On one particular trip I was cleared to land at the wrong
airport. So pilots aren't the only ones making that mistake. When I
reminded them my flight plan called for the neighboring airport, the
usual short pause was followed by a "can you make the runway from your
current position?". It was visual and I could. Some one else must have
called the tower as they were expecting me and I was well inside
where I'd have normally switched for approach to the tower. The one
approach (at the other field) handles both fields although they have
separate towers. It's a good thing they cleared me for 17 instead of
23 as both airports have a 23 but where I was headed doesn't have a
17. :-)) Actually I was already suspicious as approach was almost
taking me over the end of the runway I was expecting to use.

Allen
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com