a VERY close call....who'd be deck crew?

"The OTHER Kevin in San Diego" skiddz "AT" adelphia "DOT" net wrote in
message ...
On Wed, 28 Feb 2007 13:15:15 -0500, "B4RT"
wrote:

I didn't measure it, but from the look of it the blade pitch at the tip of
the main rotor of my jetranger when its at 90 degrees to the right (the
most negative pitch point) and the collective full down is roughly 0
degrees, it might even be a shade negative.

Hey Bart,

Any idea where I can get my hands on an old Bell 206 collective
assembly? Specifically the collective lever and end "box"...
Preferrably something that's been removed from service and is of no
use to anyone any longer..

I don't really know.

It would probably be easier to find a Huey collective, its not a life
limited part on the Jetranger so the only place to find one would be a
boneyard. Surplus military parts are all over from what I hear.

Bart

I am no expert but I am amazed at some of the most obvious cause and
effect completely ignored by every comment so far.
First thought: This pilot had no collective obviously apparent.
Second: ETL is present even in a helicopter with flat pitch, especially
in this open water situation, not counting any forward velocity of the
ship itself
Third: Yes a whole bunch of full size helicopters technically have some
negative pitch, collective down on twisted blades typically have
negative pitch at the tips.

A casual observer might see a pitching deck, a gusting wind, less than
full load and a pilot not certain if the helicopter is fully released
for departure. Its just a thought but the pilot may not have lifted off
intentionally. In fact No professional pilot would have committed a
deliberate departure not knowing the status of the crewman that just ran
to the rear of the helicopter to perform a task.




"Nick" wrote in message
...
Negative collective? .....ROTFLMFAO! Boy I dont think I have that
option on mine.

What is the pitch range on this helicopter?......anyone?......I 'fly'
RC, but it'd be interesting to know that negative pitch as not
possible.....does that go for all full size helis?

So the fact that the machine appeared light on its skids could not
have been corrected?....or minimised?


"B4RT" wrote in message
...

"Nick" wrote in message
...
Thought you guys might be interested

http://www.videosift.com/video/Helic...s-A-Close-Call

But why wouldn't he have kept some negative collective to keep it
nailed to the deck?.... how far would the tips 'dished'
down?.....not enough to cause the crew more worries than they
already had??

It seemed very light on the skids on the previous couple of swells??


Negative collective? .....ROTFLMFAO! Boy I dont think I have that
option on mine.

My armchair analysis is that the helicopter appeared to have a
forward CG and the deck was pitching as much as 15 degrees and
rolling about 7 or 8. I don't think the pilot really ever "wanted" to
take off. It looked to me like the deck pitched forward a whole lot
and he thought the helicopter would nose over if he didn't take off.
The deck angle was pitched very far forward at the moment of the tail
strike, and the camera gives the illusion that the helicopter was at
far less level pitch that it was.

I'm thinking that the pilot was taking the lesser of two evils and
got bit by one of them. Its clear to me that he was pretty skilled
because doing a totally successful hovering auto to that platform
like that couldn't be done by an unskilled pilot. The only bad
piloting in this incident appears to have happened way before the
engine started when someone decided that it was ok to take off in
seas like that.

Bart

Clark wrote in
:

"Steve R" wrote in
:

"JohnO" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Feb 23, 4:25 am, "Andrew Crane" wrote:
"JohnO" wrote in message

oups.com...





On Feb 21, 5:13 am, "Andrew Crane" wrote:
"Nick" wrote in message

...

Thought you guys might be interested

http://www.videosift.com/video/Helic...s-A-Close-Call

But why wouldn't he have kept some negative collective to
keep it
nailed
to
the deck?.... how far would the tips 'dished' down?.....not
enough to
cause
the crew more worries than they already had??

I think you dreamed "negative collective".

It seemed very light on the skids on the previous couple of
swells??

The chap took off. It didn't do this by itself.

Regards
Andrew

If the collective was not full down the chopper would be light on
the skids, The ship dropping in the swell would be enough for it
to lift off the deck.

Which begs the question why was he light on the skids in the first
place. And why he didn't respond to the lurching during the
previous two swells. I
think he was having a play.

Regards
Andrew- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That or incredibly careless given the situation. Either way, pretty
inexcusable.

Very nice job of instantly dumping collective to get back down after
the tail strike. Any attempt to fly it down and he'd have been
history.


Is the netting standard equipment in such cases? Seem like it did a
good job of giving the skids something to grab on to when he set it
down. I can imagine the aircraft sliding off the pad without it.

Also, those have "got" to be two of the luckiest deck hands in the
world!

From an observers (non-pilot) point of view, netting seems to be
standard for North Sea operations. I think it's required by the rules
for offshore oilfield operations but it's been too long since I had to
deal with that sort of stuff to be sure that my memory of the
requirement is correct.

Whether netting is required on NS decks depends on the friction of the
un-netted deck. If the friction of the deck without netting is sufficient
then none is required.

Having said that, it is generally preferable to have netting since it
aids grip and it can aid visual cuing during the last few feet of an
approach.

Arvin.