NTSB: Lack Of Weather Info Doomed Scott Crossfield

http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news...ml?CMP=OTC-RSS

The NTSB on Thursday released its final report on the plane crash that
killed famed aviator Scott Crossfield last year, with an unusual dual
finding of blame, citing both Crossfield's failure to ask for weather
updates, and air traffic control's failure to give them to him. Crossfield
crashed on the morning of April 19, 2006, in Ludville, Ga., while flying
alone in his Cessna 210. The safety board's determination of probable cause
is: "The pilot's failure to obtain updated en route weather information,
which resulted in his continued instrument flight into a widespread area of
severe convective activity, and the air traffic controller's failure to
provide adverse weather avoidance assistance, as required by Federal
Aviation Administration directives, both of which led to the airplane's
encounter with a severe thunderstorm and subsequent loss of control."

I wasn't able to attend the NATCA "Communicating for Safety" conference in
Atlanta this year, but they webcast it and made the webcast available online
at www.natca.org/safetytechnology/cfs-live.msp. Downloading all of the
sessions and playing them back is incredibly time consuming but very much
worth while. The first session gets into asking controllers to be more
forthcoming with weather information (and for pilots to ask for it if the
need is there); no names or tail numbers were mentioned but Scott
Crossfield's accident may well have been one of those discussed. As always,
Bruce Landsberg of the Air Safety Foundation is an excellent communicator of
the general aviation community's situation vis a vis ATC.

If you want to know the challenges that controllers face, and how in many
cases individual facility managers deprive them of critical information,
take a look.

Bob Gardner

"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote in message
...
http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news...ml?CMP=OTC-RSS

The NTSB on Thursday released its final report on the plane crash that
killed famed aviator Scott Crossfield last year, with an unusual dual
finding of blame, citing both Crossfield's failure to ask for weather
updates, and air traffic control's failure to give them to him. Crossfield
crashed on the morning of April 19, 2006, in Ludville, Ga., while flying
alone in his Cessna 210. The safety board's determination of probable
cause is: "The pilot's failure to obtain updated en route weather
information, which resulted in his continued instrument flight into a
widespread area of severe convective activity, and the air traffic
controller's failure to provide adverse weather avoidance assistance, as
required by Federal Aviation Administration directives, both of which led
to the airplane's encounter with a severe thunderstorm and subsequent loss
of control."

Bob Gardner wrote:
I wasn't able to attend the NATCA "Communicating for Safety" conference
in Atlanta this year, but they webcast it and made the webcast available
online at www.natca.org/safetytechnology/cfs-live.msp. Downloading all
of the sessions and playing them back is incredibly time consuming but
very much worth while. The first session gets into asking controllers to
be more forthcoming with weather information (and for pilots to ask for
it if the need is there); no names or tail numbers were mentioned but
Scott Crossfield's accident may well have been one of those discussed.
As always, Bruce Landsberg of the Air Safety Foundation is an excellent
communicator of the general aviation community's situation vis a vis ATC.

If you want to know the challenges that controllers face, and how in
many cases individual facility managers deprive them of critical
information, take a look.

Bob Gardner

"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote in message
...
http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news...ml?CMP=OTC-RSS


The NTSB on Thursday released its final report on the plane crash that
killed famed aviator Scott Crossfield last year, with an unusual dual
finding of blame, citing both Crossfield's failure to ask for weather
updates, and air traffic control's failure to give them to him.
Crossfield crashed on the morning of April 19, 2006, in Ludville, Ga.,
while flying alone in his Cessna 210. The safety board's determination
of probable cause is: "The pilot's failure to obtain updated en route
weather information, which resulted in his continued instrument flight
into a widespread area of severe convective activity, and the air
traffic controller's failure to provide adverse weather avoidance
assistance, as required by Federal Aviation Administration directives,
both of which led to the airplane's encounter with a severe
thunderstorm and subsequent loss of control."



Did you know all the weather frequencies in Georgia(EFAS)
were broke that day along Scott's flight path??

Big FAA secret

Check it out

It's hard to get info when the frequency is BROKE

On Sep 27, 3:02 pm, FredGarvinMaleProstitute
wrote:

Did you know all the weather frequencies in Georgia(EFAS)
were broke that day along Scott's flight path??

Big FAA secret

Check it out

It's hard to get info when the frequency is BROKE

Nothing will ever be unbreakable.
--
Gene Seibel
Tales of Flight - http://pad39a.com/gene/tales.html
Because I fly, I envy no one.

FredGarvinMaleProstitute wrote:
Did you know all the weather frequencies in Georgia(EFAS)
were broke that day along Scott's flight path??

Did you know that your rhetorical question doesn't make a lot of sense? You
can't "break" frequencies in the usual senses of that word. Typical troll -
can't form a meaningful sentence.

Big FAA secret

Check it out

Check out a secret? Silly sod. Either it's a secret and we can't check it
out or you're supposed to provide references to confirm your claim.

It's hard to get info when the frequency is BROKE

First try to learn to distinguish between equipment breakage, power loss,
radio frequency interference, and a host of other maladies. Then make your
claim in those specific terms.

Now here is what the NTSB report claims regarding the nearest weather
reporting station - feel free to explain in what way the DNN ASOS reporting
was "broke" [sic]:

"The closest weather reporting facility to the accident site was at the
Dalton Regional Airport (DNN), Dalton, Georgia, located about 16 miles
northwest of the accident site. The airport was equipped with an automated
surface observing system (ASOS). About 1118, the DNN ASOS reported: Wind
340 degrees true at 5 knots, gusting to 13 knots; visibility 3 sm in
thunderstorm and heavy rain; scattered clouds at 800 feet above ground
level (agl), broken ceiling at 4,800 feet agl, overcast ceiling at 8,000
feet agl; temperature 16 degrees Celsius; dew point 15 degrees Celsius;
altimeter setting 29.94 inches of mercury. Remarks: Hourly precipitation
0.14 inches and lightning distant in all quadrants."

Jim Logajan wrote:
FredGarvinMaleProstitute wrote:
Did you know all the weather frequencies in Georgia(EFAS)
were broke that day along Scott's flight path??

Did you know that your rhetorical question doesn't make a lot of sense? You
can't "break" frequencies in the usual senses of that word. Typical troll -
can't form a meaningful sentence.

Big FAA secret

Check it out

Check out a secret? Silly sod. Either it's a secret and we can't check it
out or you're supposed to provide references to confirm your claim.

It's hard to get info when the frequency is BROKE

First try to learn to distinguish between equipment breakage, power loss,
radio frequency interference, and a host of other maladies. Then make your
claim in those specific terms.

Now here is what the NTSB report claims regarding the nearest weather
reporting station - feel free to explain in what way the DNN ASOS reporting
was "broke" [sic]:

"The closest weather reporting facility to the accident site was at the
Dalton Regional Airport (DNN), Dalton, Georgia, located about 16 miles
northwest of the accident site. The airport was equipped with an automated
surface observing system (ASOS). About 1118, the DNN ASOS reported: Wind
340 degrees true at 5 knots, gusting to 13 knots; visibility 3 sm in
thunderstorm and heavy rain; scattered clouds at 800 feet above ground
level (agl), broken ceiling at 4,800 feet agl, overcast ceiling at 8,000
feet agl; temperature 16 degrees Celsius; dew point 15 degrees Celsius;
altimeter setting 29.94 inches of mercury. Remarks: Hourly precipitation
0.14 inches and lightning distant in all quadrants."

Bad choice of words. You can break frequency "outlets". If
the EFAS or RCO com outlet is out of service, then you can't
communicate with the AFSS. The EFAS and RCO outlets around
Georgia stay broke more than they stay in service. That was
the point of the statement. EFAS outlets and other FAA
equipment was OTS(Out of Service)during the time frame Scott
was passing through the airspace. If Scott tried to call the
AFSS on one of those RCO outlets and it was out of service,
then Scott could not receive a timely weather briefing or
real time weather information.

Air Traffic control is a series of links. You are only as
strong as your weakest link. When parts of the chain are
broke or weak accidents happen. Also the ASOS is only good
for one location. Weather can be drastically different just
a few miles from a ASOS/AWOS location. AFSS controllers
monitor multiple locations including PIREPS and weather
radar to assemble a mosaic of the real time flight weather.
However, if the communication outlets are OTS, how can the
pilot communicate and receive timely weather information?

Scott was in contact with the Atlanta center. Center
controllers separate aircraft and normally do not focus on
weather briefings. That is the job of the AFSS locations.
The AFSS locations communicate with pilots through RCO and
EFAS outlets located at several hundred outlets within the
US airspace system. If the outlet or outlets are
inoperative, then no weather briefings can be received when
the pilot needs them.

Was poor communication or lack of good real time weather
data the cause of Scott's crash? Probably. Like I said, you
are only good as your weakest link. Just like the major
Memphis ARTCC communication outage recently the FAA culture
has become a culture of just getting by and splitting hairs.
I believe the American public and tax payer deserves better
than a half ass Air Traffic control system that is more
focused on "Diversity" and Political Correctness and how
many black females are promoted into management than Safety
and Qualifications.

The FAA is a fat man on thin ice. And the cracks are getting
louder each day.

FredGarvinMaleProstitute wrote in
:

Jim Logajan wrote:
FredGarvinMaleProstitute wrote:
Did you know all the weather frequencies in Georgia(EFAS)
were broke that day along Scott's flight path??

Did you know that your rhetorical question doesn't make a lot of
sense? You can't "break" frequencies in the usual senses of that
word. Typical troll - can't form a meaningful sentence.

Big FAA secret

Check it out

Check out a secret? Silly sod. Either it's a secret and we can't
check it out or you're supposed to provide references to confirm your
claim.

It's hard to get info when the frequency is BROKE

First try to learn to distinguish between equipment breakage, power
loss, radio frequency interference, and a host of other maladies.
Then make your claim in those specific terms.

Now here is what the NTSB report claims regarding the nearest weather
reporting station - feel free to explain in what way the DNN ASOS
reporting was "broke" [sic]:

"The closest weather reporting facility to the accident site was at
the Dalton Regional Airport (DNN), Dalton, Georgia, located about 16
miles northwest of the accident site. The airport was equipped with
an automated surface observing system (ASOS). About 1118, the DNN
ASOS reported: Wind 340 degrees true at 5 knots, gusting to 13 knots;
visibility 3 sm in thunderstorm and heavy rain; scattered clouds at
800 feet above ground level (agl), broken ceiling at 4,800 feet agl,
overcast ceiling at 8,000 feet agl; temperature 16 degrees Celsius;
dew point 15 degrees Celsius; altimeter setting 29.94 inches of
mercury. Remarks: Hourly precipitation 0.14 inches and lightning
distant in all quadrants."

Bad choice of words. You can break frequency "outlets". If
the EFAS or RCO com outlet is out of service, then you can't
communicate with the AFSS. The EFAS and RCO outlets around
Georgia stay broke more than they stay in service. That was
the point of the statement. EFAS outlets and other FAA
equipment was OTS(Out of Service)during the time frame Scott
was passing through the airspace. If Scott tried to call the
AFSS on one of those RCO outlets and it was out of service,
then Scott could not receive a timely weather briefing or
real time weather information.

Air Traffic control is a series of links. You are only as
strong as your weakest link. When parts of the chain are
broke or weak accidents happen. Also the ASOS is only good
for one location. Weather can be drastically different just
a few miles from a ASOS/AWOS location. AFSS controllers
monitor multiple locations including PIREPS and weather
radar to assemble a mosaic of the real time flight weather.
However, if the communication outlets are OTS, how can the
pilot communicate and receive timely weather information?

Scott was in contact with the Atlanta center. Center
controllers separate aircraft and normally do not focus on
weather briefings. That is the job of the AFSS locations.
The AFSS locations communicate with pilots through RCO and
EFAS outlets located at several hundred outlets within the
US airspace system. If the outlet or outlets are
inoperative, then no weather briefings can be received when
the pilot needs them.



Oops,wrong! You may be even more clueless than Anthony!




Bertie

On Thu, 27 Sep 2007 23:32:38 -0400, FredGarvinMaleProstitute
wrote in :

However, if the communication outlets are OTS, how can the
pilot communicate and receive timely weather information?

Scott was in contact with the Atlanta center. Center
controllers separate aircraft and normally do not focus on
weather briefings. That is the job of the AFSS locations.
The AFSS locations communicate with pilots through RCO and
EFAS outlets located at several hundred outlets within the
US airspace system. If the outlet or outlets are
inoperative, then no weather briefings can be received when
the pilot needs them.

It is my understanding that ARTCC and Approach controllers have near
real time weather radar information available at the request of the
pilot. I recall something about 'button three' or something like
that. Obviously, receiving that information from ATC would not be
dependent on communication with AFFS facilities.