Aerobatics books (Bertie, Dudley)

On Dec 2, 7:38 pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
K l e i n wrote in news:7a4127e7-1f13-401e-8865-
:



If you can't wait to buy a book, you could look he
http://www.iac.org/begin/figures.html
It's free and it's right now.

It's not really good enough for instruction, but it is good enough to
describe what the manuevers are.

Bertie

I agree.

But, I would hope that no one thinks that ANY book is an adequate
substitute for competent dual instruction in an appropriately
certified aircraft, not that this is what you meant. ;^)

K l e i n

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote

BTW, I looked at buying the Arrow Active that's pictured in the book.
It's the only one in the world and was for sale years ago, in flying
condition, for about $5,000 US! I think it ended up at Shuttleworth
where it belongs.
Hopefully some Nigel won't plant it in a "watch this!" moment.

Here it is, if this is the same one. Been rebuilt, if it is.

http://www.realaero.com/
--
Jim in NC

Sounds like a lot of interesting material even for the casual pilot..
BTW, is there a reason why there is no separate aerobatics rating for
pilots? How do I judge if an aerobatics pilot is experienced or not?

On Dec 2, 1:40 pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
wrote in news:17140127-0137-4b3a-b6ee-
:

I was reading Bertie & Dudley's analysis of some low level aerobatics
gone bad. They used a fair amount of terminology I wasn't familiar
with.

What are the classic books on aerobatics?

"Roll around a point", by Duane Cole, Sort of -THE- "My first little
aerobatic book" An excellent primer

"Conquest of lines and symmetry", also by Duane Cole. For instructors,
reall, but lots of good stuff there.

"Aerobatics" by Neil Williams. Superb book that goes into it in some
depth. The terminology is British but that makes little diffeence. Snap
rolls, for instance, are flick rolls in the UK. Hammerheads are stall
turns and so on but the descriptions of how to accomplish the manuevers
are very good, The Cole books are better to begin with, though.
(You don't want to overthink the manuevers while you're trying to do
them)

Kershner has one too, but I've never read it. His other books are good,
though so I can't see this one being bad.

"Hal Krier's Modern aerobatic and precision flying" or something like
that. I have it somewhere. It's a bit like the Cole books.

I have an old WW2 navy manual that's very good as well, though the
terminology is a bit different", shall we say?

All of these are out of print AFAIK except the Neil Williams book, and
mayb ethe Kershner one

Wiliams book is worth buying just for his account of how he landed a
Zlin 526 with a broken wing spar that only allowed him to fly inverted!
Absolutely awe inspiring stuff.

Bertie

schrieb:

Sounds like a lot of interesting material even for the casual pilot..
BTW, is there a reason why there is no separate aerobatics rating for
pilots? How do I judge if an aerobatics pilot is experienced or not?

In many countries there is, and for a good reason, IMHO. You really can
kill yourself if you try to figure out by yourself how to roll a plane.

schrieb:

I've got the book by Williams -- ran across it at a used bookstore.
It's an old edition, hardback, but is in good condition. I'll check
out those others too, particularly the basics books.

If you have already read Neil Williams, then it's fun to read the book
by Eric Müller. Without referring explicitely to Neil's book, he does so
implicitely by expressing some decidedly different opinions concerning
some figures.

IMHO, Neil's book is a classic, in that it was one of the first (or even
the first) book about aerobatics. But it doesn't teach well, and it
shows its age.

I consider Eric Müller's "Flight unlimited" one of the best textbooks I
have seen. Concise, precise, and well written. (Except the chapter about
physical conditions, which is, hum, just plain wrong in many points.
Eric was a pilot, not a physician.)

BTW, if you don't know who Eric was: 1988 world champion in the unknown
programme, several times European overall champion, he invented the
figure "Zwirbelturm", and he too had to do and survived an inverted
approach with a quick roll just before impact, after the elevator had
broken during a spin recovery.

wrote in news:49526e29-d68a-4385-b170-b17a478ebf08
@s12g2000prg.googlegroups.com:

Sounds like a lot of interesting material even for the casual pilot..
BTW, is there a reason why there is no separate aerobatics rating for
pilots? How do I judge if an aerobatics pilot is experienced or not?


Good question and a difficult one too!

By reputation, really. Ask around.

Bertie

K l e i n wrote in news:884cf1bb-6619-466b-aebb-
:

On Dec 2, 7:38 pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
K l e i n wrote in news:7a4127e7-1f13-401e-8865-
:



If you can't wait to buy a book, you could look he
http://www.iac.org/begin/figures.html
It's free and it's right now.

It's not really good enough for instruction, but it is good enough to
describe what the manuevers are.

Bertie

I agree.

But, I would hope that no one thinks that ANY book is an adequate
substitute for competent dual instruction in an appropriately
certified aircraft, not that this is what you meant. ;^)


True enough. you got me there. There just isn't any substitute for flying..



Bertie

"Morgans" wrote in newsdL4j.107$Fl4.63
@newsfe02.lga:


"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote

BTW, I looked at buying the Arrow Active that's pictured in the book.
It's the only one in the world and was for sale years ago, in flying
condition, for about $5,000 US! I think it ended up at Shuttleworth
where it belongs.
Hopefully some Nigel won't plant it in a "watch this!" moment.

Here it is, if this is the same one. Been rebuilt, if it is.

http://www.realaero.com/


It's the only one. I think two were built. One with a radial, I think, but
someone crashed it and this one is the only one in the world. Funny looking
little thing. Cool looking in a funky kind of way. It's suppsed to have
been a pretty good aerobatic airplane. I think it won some competitions in
its day. Wish i'd gotten to fly it!


Bertie

On Dec 2, 10:15 pm, wrote:
Sounds like a lot of interesting material even for the casual pilot..
BTW, is there a reason why there is no separate aerobatics rating for
pilots?

There sort of is in that a CFI can get an endorsement in Aerobatics.

My instructor has one of those.

In that way you could look for an instructor who has been endorsed by
the FAA (at some level) to teach aerobatics.

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Wiliams book is worth buying just for his account of how he landed a
Zlin 526 with a broken wing spar that only allowed him to fly inverted!
Absolutely awe inspiring stuff.

Bertie

http://www.aerobatics.org.uk/repeats...ng_failure.htm

JEEEEZUS....Friggin' steel cojones

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