i think I flew into class c airspace accidentally withoutestablishing communication

On Sat, 26 Jan 2008 17:20:52 -0800 (PST), Al Borowski
wrote in
:

On Jan 27, 8:24 am, Larry Dighera wrote:
On Sat, 26 Jan 2008 09:38:17 -0800 (PST), wrote
in
:

And why on Earth would someone put my name in the thread?

Actually, you put your name is in the 'From:' field of the message you
originally posted yourself. If you have concerns about revealing your
identity, you should take steps to conceal it.

There is a huge difference between using an email address with a
partial name, as opposed to printing the entire name in full. Sure, a
pilot or interested person reading this thread could have figured it
out, but the average joe researching the OP wouldn't have found it.
But now you've put the name onto USENET for the search engines to pick
up.

Worst case: An employer, googling the name, will now find this thread.
They probably won't have an aviation background and will not have the
knowledge to evaluate the misake, so they'll probably assume the
worst.

In the event Mr. Faulkiner's is employed, and his possible employer
may have reason to research Mr. Faulkiner via a Google search, and the
possibility that Mr. Faulkiner's possible employer lacks the ability
or knowledge to correctly evaluate Mr. Faulkiner's passable pilot
deviation, exactly what do you think Mr. Faulkiner's possible employer
might assume?

If you felt like you HAD to name him, you could of at least obfuscated
his name slightly. J--N SM--H instead of JOHN SMITH or something.

Perhaps Mr. Faulkiner should have taken the responsibility to do the
obfuscating you suggest if revealing his identity were an issue for
him. I assure you, that I meant no enmity toward Mr. Faulkiner.

The OP did something stupid, and realised he made a mistake. He was
man enough to own up to it. Maybe you should do the same.

Al


I would characterize it as effective in grabbing Mr. Faulkiner's
attention and impressing him with the importance of assuming command
of his flights in the future, something his CFI failed to do
apparently. If you see it as stupid, we disagree.

Main Entry:1command
Pronunciation:k*-*mand
Function:verb
Etymology:Middle English comanden, from Middle French comander,
from (assumed) Vulgar Latin commandare, alteration of Latin
commendare to commit to one's charge more at COMMEND
Date:14th century

transitive senses
1 : to direct authoritatively : ORDER
2 : to exercise a dominating influence over : have command of: as
a : to have at one's immediate disposal
b : to demand or receive as one's due *commands a high fee*
c : to overlook or dominate from or as if from a strategic
position
d : to have military command of as senior officer
3 obsolete : to order or request to be given
intransitive senses
1 : to have or exercise direct authority : GOVERN
2 : to give orders
3 : to be commander
4 : to dominate as if from an elevated place
–commandable \-*man-d*-b*l\ adjective
synonyms COMMAND, ORDER, BID, ENJOIN, DIRECT, INSTRUCT, CHARGE
mean to issue orders. COMMAND and ORDER imply authority and
usually some degree of formality and impersonality. COMMAND
stresses official exercise of authority *a general commanding
troops*. ORDER may suggest peremptory or arbitrary exercise
*ordered his employees about like slaves*. BID suggests giving
orders peremptorily (as to children or servants) *she bade him be
seated*. ENJOIN implies giving an order or direction
authoritatively and urgently and often with admonition or
solicitude *a sign enjoining patrons to be quiet*. DIRECT and
INSTRUCT both connote expectation of obedience and usually concern
specific points of procedure or method, INSTRUCT sometimes
implying greater explicitness or formality *directed her assistant
to hold all calls* *the judge instructed the jury to ignore the
remark*. CHARGE adds to ENJOIN an implication of imposing as a
duty or responsibility *charged by the President with a secret
mission*.

On 2008-01-27, Larry Dighera wrote:
I would characterize it as effective in grabbing Mr. Faulkiner's
attention and impressing him with the importance of assuming command
of his flights in the future, something his CFI failed to do
apparently. If you see it as stupid, we disagree.

You used the Usenet equivalent of shooting him in the ass with a .45 to get
his attention. You could have done so in a much more civilized manner and
just as effectively.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
http://www.hercules-390.org (Yes, that's me!)
Buy Hercules stuff at http://www.cafepress.com/hercules-390

On Jan 26, 9:17*pm, Jay Maynard
wrote:
On 2008-01-27, Larry Dighera wrote:

I would characterize it as effective in grabbing Mr. Faulkiner's
attention and impressing him with the importance of assuming command
of his flights in the future, something his CFI failed to do
apparently. *If you see it as stupid, we disagree.

You used the Usenet equivalent of shooting him in the ass with a .45 to get
his attention. You could have done so in a much more civilized manner and
just as effectively.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC * * * * * * * * *http://www.conmicro.comhttp://jmaynard.livejournal.com* * *http://www.tronguy.nethttp://www..hercules-390.org* * * * * * * (Yes, that's me!)
Buy Hercules stuff athttp://www.cafepress.com/hercules-390


The only thing you have done is make sure that I, as well as any other
new pilots, will never ask an honest question on the ng again if we
feel we may be at fault. Having an obscured partial name is a lot
different than having your full name come up on a search engine. I
understand everything you said Larry, and I truly appreciate the bits
that were constructive. But posting of a name was totally
unnecessary. The mistakes I made during my flight have been on my
mind all day. I realize the magnitude of my mistake. I have scheduled
some time with my CFI to discuss this, and go throught the track log
of the GPS in the plane I rented.

Every time I have dealt with other pilots, I was under the impression
that we were somehow united as a group. I now realize that is not
entirely true.

On Jan 26, 9:59*pm, wrote:

Having an obscured partial name is a lot different
than having your full name come up on a search engine.

With all due respect, it's not. Even without Larry's post, googling
rfaulkiner immediately turns up your full name; and conversely,
googling your full name (which is what someone investigating you would
do) immediately turns up rfaulkiner--which would be an obvious item
for an investigator to google anyway, given your full name. (I'm not
sure why you think the name is 'obscured'. Google's web-based
newsgroup reader does omit part of the email address until you click
to see the full address, but other newsgroup readers display the full
address to begin with.)

Larry's tactic was unnecessarily rude, but otherwise inconsequential.

Be safe and enjoy your new certificate!

On Sat, 26 Jan 2008 18:59:24 -0800 (PST), wrote
in
:

On Jan 26, 9:17*pm, Jay Maynard
wrote:
On 2008-01-27, Larry Dighera wrote:

I would characterize it as effective in grabbing Mr. Faulkiner's
attention and impressing him with the importance of assuming command
of his flights in the future, something his CFI failed to do
apparently. *If you see it as stupid, we disagree.

You used the Usenet equivalent of shooting him in the ass with a .45 to get
his attention. You could have done so in a much more civilized manner and
just as effectively.


The only thing you have done is make sure that I, as well as any other
new pilots, will never ask an honest question on the ng again if we
feel we may be at fault.

That would be unfortunate if it were true, however I doubt you are not
able to speak other pilots. But they may realize how obscuring their
identity may be appropriate when they are publicly confessing their
regulation violations now.

Having an obscured partial name is a lot
different than having your full name come up on a search engine.

Of course that's not true in your case. In the future you may
consider verifying your assertions before making them.

If your identity was an issue for you, why didn't YOU take steps to
obscure it? I'll reckon you are aware of the value of it now.

There is no expedient to which a man will not resort
to avoid the real labor of thinking.
-- Sir Joshua Reynolds

I understand everything you said Larry, and I truly appreciate the bits
that were constructive.

You're welcome.

Which bits do you feel were not constructive?

But posting of a name was totally unnecessary.

I'm not so sure.

Would you have preferred to remain ignorant and continue to post your
(possible) pilot deviations using your true identity, rather than see
how it looked publicly?

Here's another hint. If you fail to instruct the FAA to remove your
name from their publicly accessible records, more than your name will
be accessible to those researching you. But there's no reason to be
paranoid about it, is there? Are you unlisted in the telephone book?

The mistakes I made during my flight have been on my mind all day.

Excellent. I believe you will recall this experience repeatedly over
the decades, and when you do, you can thank me (and not your CFI
apparently) for impressing it indelibly in your mind.

I realize the magnitude of my mistake.

Which one? The PD turned out okay, but your failure to command the
flight, as you should have been taught, is far more serious. You will
be working on that for a while. But don't beat yourself over it; it's
common for freshly certificated airmen. Just learn to be as serious
as you can about your flight operations, and always comply with Sec.
91.103:

http://tinyurl.com/2vcweo
Preflight action.

Each pilot in command shall, before beginning a flight, become
familiar with all available information concerning that flight.

You'll notice the FAA used the absolute word 'all' in that regulation.
It can be a pain to be thorough in researching ALL the data pertinent
to EVERY flight, but it's necessary. Not only to comply with
regulations, but to assure yourself that things haven't changed....

I humbly suggest, that you consider making it a personal rule to NEVER
launch without your course-line plotted on a chart; GPS is no
substitute for paper charts, trust me.

I have scheduled some time with my CFI to discuss this, and go
throught the track log of the GPS in the plane I rented.

I am impressed. That is a very mature choice of action. Well done.

I know you are worried about the consequences of your PD. Given the
ASRS immunity, that can be a non-issue for you. But your failure to
command is far more important. It would seem that the seeds of
appreciation for the significance of that have been well planted, and
are already bearing fruit.

Every time I have dealt with other pilots, I was under the impression
that we were somehow united as a group. I now realize that is not
entirely true.

When you were a child and your mother rapped your knuckles for playing
with matches, did you think she disliked you? Or did you realized she
had your best interest at heart?

Although you may find my methods to be a source of enmity toward me
personally, it's worth suffering your indigence if it serves to
impress upon you the responsibilities incumbent on airmen. There are
enough news reports of stupid-pilot-tricks to darken our image in the
eyes of the public already, and I'm sure you want to be regarded as
competent and professional among your peers. So hang out here in
rec.aviation.piloting for a few months, and I guarantee you'll learn a
lot (if you can pick your way through the noise).

--
There's an old saying that every pilot starts with a full bag of
luck, and empty bag of experiance - the trick being to fill the
bag of experiance before you empty the bag of luck"
-- Colin Southern

Larry Dighera wrote in
:

On Sat, 26 Jan 2008 18:59:24 -0800 (PST), wrote
in
:

On Jan 26, 9:17*pm, Jay Maynard
wrote:
On 2008-01-27, Larry Dighera wrote:

I would characterize it as effective in grabbing Mr. Faulkiner's
attention and impressing him with the importance of assuming
command of his flights in the future, something his CFI failed to
do apparently. *If you see it as stupid, we disagree.

You used the Usenet equivalent of shooting him in the ass with a .45
to get his attention. You could have done so in a much more
civilized manner and just as effectively.


The only thing you have done is make sure that I, as well as any other
new pilots, will never ask an honest question on the ng again if we
feel we may be at fault.

That would be unfortunate if it were true, however I doubt you are not
able to speak other pilots. But they may realize how obscuring their
identity may be appropriate when they are publicly confessing their
regulation violations now.

Having an obscured partial name is a lot
different than having your full name come up on a search engine.

Of course that's not true in your case. In the future you may
consider verifying your assertions before making them.

If your identity was an issue for you, why didn't YOU take steps to
obscure it? I'll reckon you are aware of the value of it now.

There is no expedient to which a man will not resort
to avoid the real labor of thinking.
-- Sir Joshua Reynolds

I understand everything you said Larry, and I truly appreciate the
bits that were constructive.

You're welcome.

Which bits do you feel were not constructive?

But posting of a name was totally unnecessary.

I'm not so sure.

Would you have preferred to remain ignorant and continue to post your
(possible) pilot deviations using your true identity, rather than see
how it looked publicly?

Here's another hint. If you fail to instruct the FAA to remove your
name from their publicly accessible records, more than your name will
be accessible to those researching you. But there's no reason to be
paranoid about it, is there? Are you unlisted in the telephone book?

The mistakes I made during my flight have been on my mind all day.

Excellent. I believe you will recall this experience repeatedly over
the decades, and when you do, you can thank me (and not your CFI
apparently) for impressing it indelibly in your mind.

I realize the magnitude of my mistake.

Which one? The PD turned out okay, but your failure to command the
flight, as you should have been taught, is far more serious. You will
be working on that for a while. But don't beat yourself over it; it's
common for freshly certificated airmen. Just learn to be as serious
as you can about your flight operations, and always comply with Sec.
91.103:

http://tinyurl.com/2vcweo
Preflight action.

Each pilot in command shall, before beginning a flight, become
familiar with all available information concerning that flight.

You'll notice the FAA used the absolute word 'all' in that regulation.
It can be a pain to be thorough in researching ALL the data pertinent
to EVERY flight, but it's necessary. Not only to comply with
regulations, but to assure yourself that things haven't changed....

I humbly suggest, that you consider making it a personal rule to NEVER
launch without your course-line plotted on a chart; GPS is no
substitute for paper charts, trust me.

I have scheduled some time with my CFI to discuss this, and go
throught the track log of the GPS in the plane I rented.

I am impressed. That is a very mature choice of action. Well done.

I know you are worried about the consequences of your PD. Given the
ASRS immunity, that can be a non-issue for you. But your failure to
command is far more important. It would seem that the seeds of
appreciation for the significance of that have been well planted, and
are already bearing fruit.

Every time I have dealt with other pilots, I was under the impression
that we were somehow united as a group. I now realize that is not
entirely true.

When you were a child and your mother rapped your knuckles for playing
with matches, did you think she disliked you? Or did you realized she
had your best interest at heart?

Although you may find my methods to be a source of enmity toward me
personally, it's worth suffering your indigence if it serves to
impress upon you the responsibilities incumbent on airmen. There are
enough news reports of stupid-pilot-tricks to darken our image in the
eyes of the public already, and I'm sure you want to be regarded as
competent and professional among your peers. So hang out here in
rec.aviation.piloting for a few months, and I guarantee you'll learn a
lot (if you can pick your way through the noise).


Wow, I've scraped more pleasant things off the bottom of my shoe than
you, Lar....

Bertie

On Sun, 27 Jan 2008 17:43:00 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip
wrote in :

So hang out here in
rec.aviation.piloting for a few months, and I guarantee you'll learn a
lot (if you can pick your way through the noise).


Wow, I've scraped more pleasant things off the bottom of my shoe than
you, Lar....

Have no fear, son. You'll think of something constructive to say one
day, maybe. Just keep practicing...You'll figure it out.

I have faith in you; just look at how you chose not to crosspost your
followup to your home planet, alt.usenet.kooks, this time. Even the
sophomoric possess the potential to learn, eh?

Larry Dighera wrote in
:

On Sun, 27 Jan 2008 17:43:00 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip
wrote in :

So hang out here in
rec.aviation.piloting for a few months, and I guarantee you'll learn a
lot (if you can pick your way through the noise).


Wow, I've scraped more pleasant things off the bottom of my shoe than
you, Lar....

Have no fear, son. You'll think of something constructive to say one
day, maybe. Just keep practicing...You'll figure it out.


oh ouch.


I have faith in you; just look at how you chose not to crosspost your
followup to your home planet, alt.usenet.kooks, this time. Even the
sophomoric possess the potential to learn, eh?


Oh I can crosspost there if you like, Lar.


But they're creampuffs compared to the meowers..


Demonstration?


Bertie

On Jan 27, 12:24*pm, Larry Dighera wrote:
On Sat, 26 Jan 2008 18:59:24 -0800 (PST), wrote
in
:





On Jan 26, 9:17*pm, Jay Maynard
wrote:
On 2008-01-27, Larry Dighera wrote:

I would characterize it as effective in grabbing Mr. Faulkiner's
attention and impressing him with the importance of assuming command
of his flights in the future, something his CFI failed to do
apparently. *If you see it as stupid, we disagree.

You used the Usenet equivalent of shooting him in the ass with a .45 to get
his attention. You could have done so in a much more civilized manner and
just as effectively.

The only thing you have done is make sure that I, as well as any other
new pilots, will never ask an honest question on the ng again if we
feel we may be at fault. *

That would be unfortunate if it were true, however I doubt you are not
able to speak other pilots. *But they may realize how obscuring their
identity may be appropriate when they are publicly confessing their
regulation violations now. *

Having an obscured partial name is a lot
different than having your full name come up on a search engine. *

Of course that's not true in your case. *In the future you may
consider verifying your assertions before making them. *

If your identity was an issue for you, why didn't YOU take steps to
obscure it? *I'll reckon you are aware of the value of it now. *

* * *There is no expedient to which a man will not resort
* * *to avoid the real labor of thinking. *
* * * * * -- Sir Joshua Reynolds

I understand everything you said Larry, and I truly appreciate the bits
that were constructive. *

You're welcome. *

Which bits do you feel were not constructive? *

But posting of a name was totally unnecessary. *

I'm not so sure.

Would you have preferred to remain ignorant and continue to post your
(possible) pilot deviations using your true identity, rather than see
how it looked publicly? *

Here's another hint. *If you fail to instruct the FAA to remove your
name from their publicly accessible records, more than your name will
be accessible to those researching you. *But there's no reason to be
paranoid about it, is there? *Are you unlisted in the telephone book?

The mistakes I made during my flight have been on my mind all day.

Excellent. *I believe you will recall this experience repeatedly over
the decades, and when you do, you can thank me (and not your CFI
apparently) for impressing it indelibly in your mind.

I realize the magnitude of my mistake. *

Which one? *The PD turned out okay, but your failure to command the
flight, as you should have been taught, is far more serious. *You will
be working on that for a while. *But don't beat yourself over it; it's
common for freshly certificated airmen. *Just learn to be as serious
as you can about your flight operations, and always comply with Sec.
91.103:

* *http://tinyurl.com/2vcweo
* * Preflight action.

* * Each pilot in command shall, before beginning a flight, become
* * familiar with all available information concerning that flight.

You'll notice the FAA used the absolute word 'all' in that regulation.
It can be a pain to be thorough in researching ALL the data pertinent
to EVERY flight, but it's necessary. *Not only to comply with
regulations, but to assure yourself that things haven't changed....

I humbly suggest, that you consider making it a personal rule to NEVER
launch without your course-line plotted on a chart; GPS is no
substitute for paper charts, trust me.

I have scheduled some time with my CFI to discuss this, and go
throught the track log of the GPS in the plane I rented.

I am impressed. *That is a very mature choice of action. *Well done. *

I know you are worried about the consequences of your PD. *Given the
ASRS immunity, that can be a non-issue for you. *But your failure to
command is far more important. *It would seem that the seeds of
appreciation for the significance of that have been well planted, and
are already bearing fruit.

Every time I have dealt with other pilots, I was under the impression
that we were somehow united as a group. *I now realize that is not
entirely true.

When you were a child and your mother rapped your knuckles for playing
with matches, did you think she disliked you? *Or did you realized she
had your best interest at heart?

Although you may find my methods to be a source of enmity toward me
personally, it's worth suffering your indigence if it serves to
impress upon you the responsibilities incumbent on airmen. *There are
enough news reports of stupid-pilot-tricks to darken our image in the
eyes of the public already, and I'm sure you want to be regarded as
competent and professional among your peers. *So hang out here in
rec.aviation.piloting for a few months, and I guarantee you'll learn a
lot (if you can pick your way through the noise).

--
* * There's an old saying that every pilot starts with a full bag of
* * luck, and empty bag of experiance - the trick being to fill the
* * bag of experiance before you empty the bag of luck"
* * *-- Colin Southern- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Larry,

Not only are you an idiot, you are a complete asshole.

Wil

William Hung wrote:
On Jan 27, 12:24 pm, Larry Dighera wrote:
On Sat, 26 Jan 2008 18:59:24 -0800 (PST), wrote
in
:





On Jan 26, 9:17 pm, Jay Maynard
wrote:
On 2008-01-27, Larry Dighera wrote:
I would characterize it as effective in grabbing Mr. Faulkiner's
attention and impressing him with the importance of assuming command
of his flights in the future, something his CFI failed to do
apparently. If you see it as stupid, we disagree.
You used the Usenet equivalent of shooting him in the ass with a .45 to get
his attention. You could have done so in a much more civilized manner and
just as effectively.
The only thing you have done is make sure that I, as well as any other
new pilots, will never ask an honest question on the ng again if we
feel we may be at fault.
That would be unfortunate if it were true, however I doubt you are not
able to speak other pilots. But they may realize how obscuring their
identity may be appropriate when they are publicly confessing their
regulation violations now.

Having an obscured partial name is a lot
different than having your full name come up on a search engine.
Of course that's not true in your case. In the future you may
consider verifying your assertions before making them.

If your identity was an issue for you, why didn't YOU take steps to
obscure it? I'll reckon you are aware of the value of it now.

There is no expedient to which a man will not resort
to avoid the real labor of thinking.
-- Sir Joshua Reynolds

I understand everything you said Larry, and I truly appreciate the bits
that were constructive.
You're welcome.

Which bits do you feel were not constructive?

But posting of a name was totally unnecessary.
I'm not so sure.

Would you have preferred to remain ignorant and continue to post your
(possible) pilot deviations using your true identity, rather than see
how it looked publicly?

Here's another hint. If you fail to instruct the FAA to remove your
name from their publicly accessible records, more than your name will
be accessible to those researching you. But there's no reason to be
paranoid about it, is there? Are you unlisted in the telephone book?

The mistakes I made during my flight have been on my mind all day.
Excellent. I believe you will recall this experience repeatedly over
the decades, and when you do, you can thank me (and not your CFI
apparently) for impressing it indelibly in your mind.

I realize the magnitude of my mistake.
Which one? The PD turned out okay, but your failure to command the
flight, as you should have been taught, is far more serious. You will
be working on that for a while. But don't beat yourself over it; it's
common for freshly certificated airmen. Just learn to be as serious
as you can about your flight operations, and always comply with Sec.
91.103:

http://tinyurl.com/2vcweo
Preflight action.

Each pilot in command shall, before beginning a flight, become
familiar with all available information concerning that flight.

You'll notice the FAA used the absolute word 'all' in that regulation.
It can be a pain to be thorough in researching ALL the data pertinent
to EVERY flight, but it's necessary. Not only to comply with
regulations, but to assure yourself that things haven't changed....

I humbly suggest, that you consider making it a personal rule to NEVER
launch without your course-line plotted on a chart; GPS is no
substitute for paper charts, trust me.

I have scheduled some time with my CFI to discuss this, and go
throught the track log of the GPS in the plane I rented.
I am impressed. That is a very mature choice of action. Well done.

I know you are worried about the consequences of your PD. Given the
ASRS immunity, that can be a non-issue for you. But your failure to
command is far more important. It would seem that the seeds of
appreciation for the significance of that have been well planted, and
are already bearing fruit.

Every time I have dealt with other pilots, I was under the impression
that we were somehow united as a group. I now realize that is not
entirely true.
When you were a child and your mother rapped your knuckles for playing
with matches, did you think she disliked you? Or did you realized she
had your best interest at heart?

Although you may find my methods to be a source of enmity toward me
personally, it's worth suffering your indigence if it serves to
impress upon you the responsibilities incumbent on airmen. There are
enough news reports of stupid-pilot-tricks to darken our image in the
eyes of the public already, and I'm sure you want to be regarded as
competent and professional among your peers. So hang out here in
rec.aviation.piloting for a few months, and I guarantee you'll learn a
lot (if you can pick your way through the noise).

--
There's an old saying that every pilot starts with a full bag of
luck, and empty bag of experiance - the trick being to fill the
bag of experiance before you empty the bag of luck"
-- Colin Southern- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Larry,

Not only are you an idiot, you are a complete asshole.

Now you're insulting assholes everywhere...