Stalls??

On Feb 13, 3:22*pm, "Robert M. Gary" wrote:
On Feb 13, 12:53*pm, "Ol Shy & Bashful" wrote:

Why is it so many pilots are afraid of stalls? I see it over an over
when doing flight reviews and checks. Why are pilots so afraid of
flying in the low end of the speed envelope? Isn't that where the
nasty things can happen? Isn't that where a pilot should be
comfortable and competent?
What do you think?
Its a loaded? question and comes from a 24,000+ hour pilot and active
instructor. I'd really like to see some active discussion on this
subject. I'm tired of seeing aircraft damaged by sloppy flying, and
even more tired of seeing people injured by same.
Got any comments?
Ol S&B

As an instructor I approach the first stall with a student with some
caution just because I don't know the plane. I've had a few planes end
up with the blue side down (a Bonanza and a Mooney) in the stall.
These owners had not stalled their planes before. When i was a student
pilot in the Cessna 140 I also thought it odd that some people didn't
like stalls. That was because the C-140 doesn't really stall, it just
buffets along. However, you jump into something with a more
interesting stall characteristic and you can see why some students
don't like stalls.
I'm actually becoming a bit of an odd ball in the Mooney community
because I still do full stalls in the plane. Most of the other CFIs
only go to the first nose drop, not a full stall and when teaching at
the Mooney Pilot Prof. courses you are prohibited from doing full
stalls with students. *There are a lot of 10,000+ hour Mooney
instructors that say you simply shouldn't be doing full stalls in
these types of planes.

-Robert, CFII

Robert
What is a full stall? Does it have anything to do with the pitch
attitude of the aircraft? The whole purpose of doing stall practice is
to teach a pilot how not to get into a stall that makes him NewsAt 9
and a smoking hole in the ground...??!!
What is the advantage of going into a "deep stall" that pitches the
nose down steeply and results in a severe loss of altitude? Isn't the
purpose of stall practice to simulate stalls in the departure or
approach phase? And how much altitude is there to play with? I don't
think it should be thought of as 2-3000 feet as done in practice.
Rather it should be thought of as 50 feet as in an approach stall, or
as 100 feet in a departure stall. Now we are getting realistic in the
dangers of stalls and how to make an effective recovery without
hitting the ground.
Your comment about not knowing the plane has me curious. In fact, most
of your post has me confused as regards stalls.
Cheers
Ol S&B

On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:50:09 -0800 (PST), "Ol Shy & Bashful"
... The whole purpose of doing stall practice is
to teach a pilot how not to get into a stall that makes him NewsAt 9
and a smoking hole in the ground...??!!
What is the advantage of going into a "deep stall" that pitches the
nose down steeply and results in a severe loss of altitude? Isn't the
purpose of stall practice to simulate stalls in the departure or
approach phase?...

You teach full stalls because although you should never get into one
accidentally, if it DOES happen you don't want it to be a totally
unfamiliar situation.

-Dana
--
--
If replying by email, please make the obvious changes.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Have you any idea how successful censorship is on TV? Don't know the answer? Hm. Successful. Isn't it?

On Feb 13, 1:50*pm, "Ol Shy & Bashful" wrote:

Your comment about not knowing the plane has me curious. In fact, most
of your post has me confused as regards stalls.
Cheers
Ol S&B

I'm mostly an inde CFI so I don't have the benefit of knowing the
planes I'm going to be instructing in. Although the Cessna & Piper
brands normally stall about the same, the higher performance singles
often have individual personalities. For instance I can jump in one
plane and do stalls that are very tame and jump into another with a
serial number only a few off and end up inverted (I know this from
experience ). So the first time you stall a customer's plane you
want to be very careful, especially if you are the first CFI that's
done a full stall in the plane since the last rigging.
I picked up a Mooney from a Mooney Service Center after some control
linkage work. They actually have test pilots fly their aircraft before
releasing them back to customers. I met with the test pilot because I
knew they did a lot of flap rigging and asked him how it stalled
afterwards. He said "Oh, I don't stall them, but it flew straight as I
dropped the flaps". He then put on the helmet and jumped on his crotch
rocket. Full stalls, to the point the nose pitches down, seems to be a
thing of the past in high performance planes now. Again, teaching at
the official prof courses, we are prohibited from doing them.

-Robert, CFII

On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:50:09 -0800 (PST), "Ol Shy & Bashful"
wrote:

snip

Robert
What is a full stall? Does it have anything to do with the pitch
attitude of the aircraft? The whole purpose of doing stall practice is
to teach a pilot how not to get into a stall that makes him NewsAt 9
and a smoking hole in the ground...??!!
What is the advantage of going into a "deep stall" that pitches the
nose down steeply and results in a severe loss of altitude? Isn't the
purpose of stall practice to simulate stalls in the departure or
approach phase? And how much altitude is there to play with? I don't
think it should be thought of as 2-3000 feet as done in practice.

Our goals in practice were zero loss although up to a 100 was
acceptable.

Rather it should be thought of as 50 feet as in an approach stall, or
as 100 feet in a departure stall. Now we are getting realistic in the

Altitude loss in a departure stall can easily be held to zero in a Bo.
Gear and flaps down in approach mode should be 50 (or less) unless
you hold it in the stall for effect.

dangers of stalls and how to make an effective recovery without
hitting the ground.
Your comment about not knowing the plane has me curious. In fact, most
of your post has me confused as regards stalls.
Cheers
Ol S&B
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com