Congested Area?

"Dallas" wrote in message
...

What's your opinion, is this a congested area or not?

http://tinyurl.com/3okuon

My take is that this is an "other than congested area", but a recent
article in AOPA magazine discussing an FAA ruling gives congested area a
pretty broad definition.

I've been assuming "congested area" = pretty much wall to wall development
with streets being the best option for emergency landing.

"Other that congested area" = I took to mean that there are at least
several open areas at most times that you could bring an airplane down
into
without hitting any person or property.

I've always figured that any area marked in yellow on the sectional is going
to be considered a "congested area". That gives you some place to start,
but there's lots of places that aren't yellow which are going to be
considered a "congested area".

The FAA has consistently said the determination will be made on a
case-by-case basis.

So the way I figure it the answer to your question is the same one for
"should I go around?" If you have to ask yourself the question, the answer
is always "yes".

that was the rule given to me when I first started flying over 30yrs ago..
but the charts do not keep up with rapid growth..
if you can't land without touching something other than earth..
it's congested.
BT

"Mike" wrote in message
news:7oddk.720$HY.194@trnddc01...
"Dallas" wrote in message
...

What's your opinion, is this a congested area or not?

http://tinyurl.com/3okuon

My take is that this is an "other than congested area", but a recent
article in AOPA magazine discussing an FAA ruling gives congested area a
pretty broad definition.

I've been assuming "congested area" = pretty much wall to wall
development
with streets being the best option for emergency landing.

"Other that congested area" = I took to mean that there are at least
several open areas at most times that you could bring an airplane down
into
without hitting any person or property.

I've always figured that any area marked in yellow on the sectional is
going to be considered a "congested area". That gives you some place to
start, but there's lots of places that aren't yellow which are going to be
considered a "congested area".

The FAA has consistently said the determination will be made on a
case-by-case basis.

So the way I figure it the answer to your question is the same one for
"should I go around?" If you have to ask yourself the question, the
answer is always "yes".

"BT" wrote
that was the rule given to me when I first started flying over 30yrs
ago.. but the charts do not keep up with rapid growth..

Just to not confuse those that don't know, the yellow on the sectional
chart indicates the area that could be expected to be illuminated at
night by street lights, lights in buildings, etc. It is an aid to night
visual navigation.

Bob Moore

On 10 Jul 2008 12:09:47 GMT, Robert Moore wrote:

Just to not confuse those that don't know, the yellow on the sectional
chart indicates the area that could be expected to be illuminated at
night by street lights,

Wow... I'll bet even the DPE that gave me my check ride couldn't have
answered that one.

I've heard the question asked many times, but never got an answer.

--
Dallas

"Dallas" wrote in message
.. .
On 10 Jul 2008 12:09:47 GMT, Robert Moore wrote:

Just to not confuse those that don't know, the yellow on the sectional
chart indicates the area that could be expected to be illuminated at
night by street lights,

Wow... I'll bet even the DPE that gave me my check ride couldn't have
answered that one.

I'd be very surprised if he didn't. That's how you navigate visually at
night.

Dallas wrote:
On 10 Jul 2008 12:09:47 GMT, Robert Moore wrote:

Just to not confuse those that don't know, the yellow on the sectional
chart indicates the area that could be expected to be illuminated at
night by street lights,

Wow... I'll bet even the DPE that gave me my check ride couldn't have
answered that one.

I've heard the question asked many times, but never got an answer.


Really? That was taught to me the first time a sectional was displayed
in ground school. (1979)

Gig 601Xl Builder wrote in news:cZ6dnfAM49GRw-
:

Dallas wrote:
On 10 Jul 2008 12:09:47 GMT, Robert Moore wrote:

Just to not confuse those that don't know, the yellow on the sectional
chart indicates the area that could be expected to be illuminated at
night by street lights,

Wow... I'll bet even the DPE that gave me my check ride couldn't have
answered that one.

I've heard the question asked many times, but never got an answer.


Really? That was taught to me the first time a sectional was displayed
in ground school. (1979)


Historic though that may have been,I'm relatively certain that sectionals
were taught in groundschools before that!

Bertie

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Gig 601Xl Builder wrote in news:cZ6dnfAM49GRw-
:

Dallas wrote:
On 10 Jul 2008 12:09:47 GMT, Robert Moore wrote:

Just to not confuse those that don't know, the yellow on the sectional
chart indicates the area that could be expected to be illuminated at
night by street lights,
Wow... I'll bet even the DPE that gave me my check ride couldn't have
answered that one.

I've heard the question asked many times, but never got an answer.

Really? That was taught to me the first time a sectional was displayed
in ground school. (1979)


Historic though that may have been,I'm relatively certain that sectionals
were taught in groundschools before that!

Bertie

Don't be a dick Bertie. You and everyone that can read knew what I meant.

On 10 Jul 2008 12:09:47 GMT, Robert Moore wrote:

Just to not confuse those that don't know, the yellow on the sectional
chart indicates the area that could be expected to be illuminated at
night by street lights, lights in buildings, etc. It is an aid to night
visual navigation.

I found a reference which doesn't state it that way. Mine you, this
reference just comes from a post in another forum, but he claims to quote
the map makers:

"The "yellow" area on the charts is supposed to correspond to developed
urbanized areas. The only significant change regarding charting in these
"yellow" areas involves the depiction of obstructions. Generally,
obstructions 201' and higher above the ground are depicted on the charts.
However in these "yellow" areas, only obstructions 300' and higher above
the ground are depicted.

Sincerely,
Rick Fecht
National Aeronautical Charting Office
Visual Chart Branch
301-713-2953 Ext-126"

Source:
http://forums.piperowner.org/read/7/21716/21731/quote=1

--
Dallas

Dallas wrote:
On 10 Jul 2008 12:09:47 GMT, Robert Moore wrote:

Just to not confuse those that don't know, the yellow on the
sectional chart indicates the area that could be expected to be
illuminated at night by street lights, lights in buildings, etc. It
is an aid to night visual navigation.

I found a reference which doesn't state it that way. Mine you, this
reference just comes from a post in another forum, but he claims to
quote the map makers:

"The "yellow" area on the charts is supposed to correspond to
developed urbanized areas. The only significant change regarding
charting in these "yellow" areas involves the depiction of
obstructions. Generally, obstructions 201' and higher above the
ground are depicted on the charts. However in these "yellow" areas,
only obstructions 300' and higher above the ground are depicted.


Seems to me the developed urbanized areas are the areas that could be
expected to be illuminated at night by street lights, lights in buildings,
etc.