Jeppesen Garmin Nav Updates

On Oct 13, 10:04*am, Sam Spade wrote:

I can't imagine how someone could afford to buy and install a Garmin 430
but not be able to maintain a current database.

That is really a different, but related issue, to updating a handheld.-

You just met that person. My wallet is not unlimited so I run a
shoestring budget when it comes to the luxuries of updating a data
card. As I am sure you know, maintenance on a plane doesn't come
cheap especially for Beech products (my choice I understand).

Since I don't maintain an updated data card, the 430 is no better then
a hand held as it's legally only good for situational awareness so in
the full scheme it's not different.

I fly approaches at minimum once a month or about 15 times a year.
This comes out to about $20 per "flight day" when I do approaches if I
was to keep an updated card. At least with paper plates, I can check
online to see if I have the latest version and not have to reprint.
Can't do that with the card....

Compared to paper, the electronic process, we are getting gouged big
time. I understand in the beginning cost of establishing
infrastructure, we should pay higher, but now, the infrastructure is
in place and that cost of maintenance is the only thing in place, so
the price should be going southbound. We just are not seeing this.

BeechSundowner wrote:
On Oct 13, 10:04 am, Sam Spade wrote:


I can't imagine how someone could afford to buy and install a Garmin 430
but not be able to maintain a current database.

That is really a different, but related issue, to updating a handheld.-


You just met that person. My wallet is not unlimited so I run a
shoestring budget when it comes to the luxuries of updating a data
card. As I am sure you know, maintenance on a plane doesn't come
cheap especially for Beech products (my choice I understand).

Since I don't maintain an updated data card, the 430 is no better then
a hand held as it's legally only good for situational awareness so in
the full scheme it's not different.

I fly approaches at minimum once a month or about 15 times a year.
This comes out to about $20 per "flight day" when I do approaches if I
was to keep an updated card. At least with paper plates, I can check
online to see if I have the latest version and not have to reprint.
Can't do that with the card....

Compared to paper, the electronic process, we are getting gouged big
time. I understand in the beginning cost of establishing
infrastructure, we should pay higher, but now, the infrastructure is
in place and that cost of maintenance is the only thing in place, so
the price should be going southbound. We just are not seeing this.

I don't believe you understand the system.

And, it is pointless to try to explain it here.

Perhaps you should sell the Garmin IFR unit and do your limited IFR
flying with VOR and ILS.

On Oct 14, 5:21*am, Sam Spade wrote:

And, it is pointless to try to explain it here.

Perhaps you should sell the Garmin IFR unit and do your limited IFR
flying with VOR and ILS.- Hide quoted text -

I do fly ground based as primary as I stated before, but that doesn't
change the fact that the updates are rediculously overpriced. And to
suggest to selling a unit that promotes situational awareness is
ludicrous just because you feel the price of subscription is a
reasonable price. I suspect you are in the very minority of this
group of people who find $300 - $400 annual subscription appropriately
reasonable..

I don't fly everyday and that subscription price per use is
rediculous. I am not arguing with you in that there should't be a
subscription price, but aviation is being gouged. Unrelated expense
but an example of how bad we are getting gouged. I had to replace a
nav light. I could have gone to Lowes and bought the bulb for 38
cents. No, I paid $40.00! Same concept with the GPS data update
expenses.

We live in the computer age and you can't tell me alot of this stuff
hasn't become automated over time...... It's not like there is
material to be had other then a data card. No trees cut down, no
paper mill costs and so on. Hell, there isn't even mailing costs with
the advent of downloadable data.

"BeechSundowner" wrote in message
...
On Oct 14, 5:21 am, Sam Spade wrote:
I do fly ground based as primary as I stated before, but that doesn't
change the fact that the updates are rediculously overpriced. And to
suggest to selling a unit that promotes situational awareness is
ludicrous just because you feel the price of subscription is a
reasonable price. I suspect you are in the very minority of this
group of people who find $300 - $400 annual subscription appropriately
reasonable..

Jeppesen will charge what the market will take and not a penny more. Simple
supply and demand issue. Yes, they have the infrastructure in place but the
market is a small one and they need to make a profit. I think they've
already made an attempt to accomodate the spamcan drivers with the
availability of regional database subscriptions.

If there really is a market for someone else, that should be good news to
someone reading this. However, my gut tells me it will sound like a good
idea until the quote for liability insurance arrives.

Marco

Marco L wrote:



If there really is a market for someone else, that should be good news to
someone reading this. However, my gut tells me it will sound like a good
idea until the quote for liability insurance arrives.

Marco


Jeppesen was in dire straights because of all the litigation they
constantly face. Had the LA Times not sold them to Boeing they would
likely be out of business by now.

"Sam Spade" wrote in message
...

Jeppesen was in dire straights because of all the litigation they
constantly face. Had the LA Times not sold them to Boeing they would
likely be out of business by now.

Did not know that. Interesting info Sam. Thanks.

BeechSundowner wrote:


We live in the computer age and you can't tell me alot of this stuff
hasn't become automated over time......

That's correct, I am unable to tell you the facts.

"BeechSundowner" wrote in message
...

I don't fly everyday and that subscription price per use is
rediculous. I am not arguing with you in that there should't be a
subscription price, but aviation is being gouged.

What's really at issue here is the 28-day cycle. For the database to be
up-to-date for that (approx) one day that you fly, it will be up-to-date for
the other 27 days. Sounds like what you want is a per trip update system at
an appropriate price. Other than to change the cycle to daily, the only
other way is to put an expiration on the database where you can't use it.
That's a major software and TSO certification change and a lot of work for
very little cost benefit.

We simply need more pilots and more airplanes in the system. It will fix a
number of cost issues.

Marco

On Oct 15, 9:05*am, "Marco L" mmleon(AT)yahoo.com wrote:

What's really at issue here is the 28-day cycle. For the database to be
up-to-date for that (approx) one day that you fly, it will be up-to-date for
the other 27 days.

Providing of course I fly in the beginning of the cycle. If I depart
on day 27 and return 3 days later, the card is out of date. This has
not happened to me but can happen.

Ironically, from personal observations, very little is changed that is
housed on the data card in the few airports I have frequented. I have
seen frequency changes, runway length changes and the such, but in my
7 years of instrument
flying I have only seen one fix change. (TUP was changed to OTB)

Obviously, I better know the runway and frequency changes before
getting into the plane, but on the off chance a divert is needed, the
data card would need to be current for a non eventful outcome IF and a
big IF I depended on the data card for flight decision making. Since
I print all approach plates for airports enroute, I don't depend on
the data card.

The data that I see constantly change that is not housed on the Garmin
430 data card are the minimums so all the CRITICAL information I need
on an approach isn't even on the card!

Other than to change the cycle to daily, the only
other way is to put an expiration on the database where you can't use it.
That's a major software and TSO certification change and a lot of work for
very little cost benefit.

We simply need more pilots and more airplanes in the system. It will fix a
number of cost issues.

I agree with all that you say above, and again, I expect cost to be
incurred in getting access to this host of valuable information but
$300+ for one GPS approach that never got executed was a big expense
to incur this year.

Yep I also agree, more GPS equipped planes would be helpful in the
supply and demand :-) but along with bringing down the price of GPS
data cards, we need to bring down the cost of maintaining our birds to
beef up that supply and demand needs of GPS cards.