They call it the impossible turn.

Clark writes:

That response would have surprised my instructor on my first stage check when
he pulled power on me just after we had flown over an airport.

Losing power while overflying an airport isn't the same as losing power just
after takeoff.

Yes, I turned it around and landed it - didn't even bend anything either!

It's all about situational awareness, particular circumstances, and training.

The particular circumstances in which you can safely turn around after a total
power loss on takeoff are very rare, irrespective of situational awareness or
training.

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
Clark writes:

That response would have surprised my instructor on my first stage check
when
he pulled power on me just after we had flown over an airport.

Losing power while overflying an airport isn't the same as losing power
just
after takeoff.

Yes, I turned it around and landed it - didn't even bend anything either!

It's all about situational awareness, particular circumstances, and
training.

The particular circumstances in which you can safely turn around after a
total
power loss on takeoff are very rare, irrespective of situational awareness
or
training.

Not rare at all, they are very common--if you are proficient.

Peter Dohm writes:

Not rare at all, they are very common--if you are proficient.

Examples?

Am 14.02.10 00:55, schrieb Mxsmanic:
Peter Dohm writes:

Not rare at all, they are very common--if you are proficient.

Examples?

Does a 180° from 400 feet with an Antonov An-2 count?

http://www.bfu.admin.ch/common/pdf/1826_e.pdf

In this case, there was unfortunately deep snow which caused a rollover
after the successful touchdown, but nobody was hurt, so I'd call the
manoevre successful.

John Smith writes:

Does a 180° from 400 feet with an Antonov An-2 count?

http://www.bfu.admin.ch/common/pdf/1826_e.pdf

In this case, there was unfortunately deep snow which caused a rollover
after the successful touchdown, but nobody was hurt, so I'd call the
manoevre successful.

Is this a common landing?

Mxsmanic wrote:
The particular circumstances in which you can safely turn around after
a total power loss on takeoff are very rare, irrespective of
situational awareness or training.

The above is incorrect.

Demonstration of unpowered 180 degree turnback to the takeoff airfield from
altitudes as low as 200 ft was required of my fixed wing student pilot
training curriculum. I've done it in a real aircraft.

My experience was not rare, either. All the CFIs I've flown with have done
it.

Jim Logajan wrote
Demonstration of unpowered 180 degree turnback to the takeoff airfield
from altitudes as low as 200 ft was required of my fixed wing student
pilot training curriculum. I've done it in a real aircraft.
My experience was not rare, either. All the CFIs I've flown with have
done it.

Sure.....in a Sailplane with a 30:1 glide ratio,
Sure-as-hell not in a Cessna or Piper with a 9:1 glide.

Bob Moore
ATP CFIing since 1970

Robert Moore wrote:
Jim Logajan wrote
Demonstration of unpowered 180 degree turnback to the takeoff airfield
from altitudes as low as 200 ft was required of my fixed wing student
pilot training curriculum. I've done it in a real aircraft.
My experience was not rare, either. All the CFIs I've flown with have
done it.

Sure.....in a Sailplane with a 30:1 glide ratio,

Sure - you understood what I was talking about, but clearly Mxsmanic had no
clue or he wouldn't have made the sweeping claim he did.

As an aside, it is possible with an SGS 2-33A (the trainer our club has,)
which has a best glide ratio of only about 22:1.

Sure-as-hell not in a Cessna or Piper with a 9:1 glide.

Indeed - but Mxsmanic's opinion (presented as fact) was that circumstances
where you can safely perform unpowered turnbacks are "very rare" - which of
course isn't true in the sweeping way he put it.

As an interesting aside, I notice that some newer "glass" airplanes have
surprisingly high glide ratios (like the Arion Lightning with a L/D ratio
of 17:1) not to mention all motor gliders (though there would normally be
no need to practice low altitude "rope break" turnbacks for them!)

Jim Logajan writes:

Sure - you understood what I was talking about, but clearly Mxsmanic had no
clue or he wouldn't have made the sweeping claim he did.

The topic of the thread concerns the high risk of attempting to return to an
airport after losing all power after takeoff. It's hard to see how this would
be applicable to gliders, since they do not take off and they are not powered.

As an aside, it is possible with an SGS 2-33A (the trainer our club has,)
which has a best glide ratio of only about 22:1.

What's on the checklist for total power failure during a climb after takeoff
for this aircraft?

Indeed - but Mxsmanic's opinion (presented as fact) was that circumstances
where you can safely perform unpowered turnbacks are "very rare" - which of
course isn't true in the sweeping way he put it.

They are indeed very rare with any aircraft that fits the category covered by
the topic, namely, powered fixed-wing aircraft. Gliders, helicopters, hot-air
balloons, and blimps are not in that category.

In rec.aviation.piloting Mxsmanic wrote:
Jim Logajan writes:

Sure - you understood what I was talking about, but clearly Mxsmanic had no
clue or he wouldn't have made the sweeping claim he did.

The topic of the thread concerns the high risk of attempting to return to an
airport after losing all power after takeoff. It's hard to see how this would
be applicable to gliders, since they do not take off and they are not powered.

They certainly do take off, or how would they get into the air?

And they are powered by an engine at the end of a rope.



--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.