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On Aug 17, 7:56*am, Tony wrote:
Curious, Sporting Code 3 defines the Ultralight Class as a take off weight of less than 220 kg, or 485 lbs. *Is this maximum allowed takeoff weigth or the actual weight of the glider for that flight? Tony... as I read the sporting code.. they always refer to "Mass", whether it be max or minimum attainable. So to me, in the US to read, "ULTRALIGHT, a glider with a takeoff mass not exceeding 220 kg," that means maximum gross weight. Are you considering that you can get an ULTRALIGHT record if you can fly your glider below 220kg, even if you can actually carry more according to the TCDS? Perhaps a letter to the FAI or the SSA Badge Lady is needed? BT |
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On Aug 17, 7:41*pm, BTiz wrote:
On Aug 17, 7:56*am, Tony wrote: Curious, Sporting Code 3 defines the Ultralight Class as a take off weight of less than 220 kg, or 485 lbs. *Is this maximum allowed takeoff weigth or the actual weight of the glider for that flight? Tony... as I read the sporting code.. they always refer to "Mass", whether it be max or minimum attainable. So to me, in the US to read, "ULTRALIGHT, a glider with a takeoff mass not exceeding 220 kg," that means maximum gross weight. Are you considering that you can get an ULTRALIGHT record if you can fly your glider below 220kg, even if you can actually carry more according to the TCDS? Perhaps a letter to the FAI or the SSA Badge Lady is needed? BT The sporting code does not have different meaning in the US vs. other countries. Not me, but I think there is a possibility that a light person in Leah's Cherokee II would be under the Ultralight limit and the Feminine World Record for Free Distance in the Ultralight class is only 150ish kilometers. There are NO US Feminine records in the Ultralight class. |
#3
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On Aug 17, 7:21*pm, Tony wrote:
On Aug 17, 7:41*pm, BTiz wrote: On Aug 17, 7:56*am, Tony wrote: Curious, Sporting Code 3 defines the Ultralight Class as a take off weight of less than 220 kg, or 485 lbs. *Is this maximum allowed takeoff weigth or the actual weight of the glider for that flight? Tony... as I read the sporting code.. they always refer to "Mass", whether it be max or minimum attainable. So to me, in the US to read, "ULTRALIGHT, a glider with a takeoff mass not exceeding 220 kg," that means maximum gross weight. Are you considering that you can get an ULTRALIGHT record if you can fly your glider below 220kg, even if you can actually carry more according to the TCDS? Perhaps a letter to the FAI or the SSA Badge Lady is needed? BT The sporting code does not have different meaning in the US vs. other countries. Not me, but I think there is a possibility that a light person in Leah's Cherokee II would be under the Ultralight limit and the Feminine World Record for Free Distance in the Ultralight class is only 150ish kilometers. *There are NO US Feminine records in the Ultralight class.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - That may be worth chasing, you would probably have to have a certified weight taken just prior to take off. That extra bottle of water may be too much. Not many "ultralight gliders" in the US until they built the SparrowHawk. |
#4
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Not many "ultralight gliders" in the US until they built the
SparrowHawk. There's still more Carbon Dragons than SparrowHawks... nearly 2/1 IIRC (might not all be in US, hmm), but even added together it's still not many... Gary Osaba knows a great deal about the fine lines of the sporting code on ultralights if you contact him... Also Leo Benitti set a respectable one of TX in a too and would know the nitty gritties and I'm sure would be glad to help if you contacted him. relevant: http://records.fai.org/docs/9635-4.pdf His Silent was 281lbs empty for the flight, within D/U limits. If it were the motorglider version, it would have been 140lbs heavier and I think out of weight for the category. You should be able to extrapolate whether Leah and her Cherokee are too fat for this category or not. If they are over however, I recommend different verbiage to convey this point ![]() -p |
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On Aug 17, 11:29*pm, sisu1a wrote:
Not many "ultralight gliders" in the US until they built the SparrowHawk. There's still more Carbon Dragons than SparrowHawks... * nearly 2/1 IIRC (might not all be in US, hmm), but even added together it's still not many... *Gary Osaba knows a great deal about the fine lines of the sporting code on ultralights if you contact him... Also Leo Benitti set a respectable one of TX in a too and would know the nitty gritties and I'm sure would be glad to help if you contacted him. relevant:http://records.fai.org/docs/9635-4.pdf His Silent was 281lbs empty for the flight, within D/U *limits. If it were the motorglider version, it would have been 140lbs heavier and I think out of weight for the category. You should be able to extrapolate whether Leah and her Cherokee are too fat for this category or not. If they are over however, I recommend different verbiage to convey this point ![]() -p not to mention there are a few woodstocks out there. Good point Paul, I'll check in with Gary and Leo. I had read Leo's flight report in Soaring, what a story. |
#6
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On Aug 18, 7:19*am, Tony wrote:
On Aug 17, 11:29*pm, sisu1a wrote: Not many "ultralight gliders" in the US until they built the SparrowHawk. There's still more Carbon Dragons than SparrowHawks... * nearly 2/1 IIRC (might not all be in US, hmm), but even added together it's still not many... *Gary Osaba knows a great deal about the fine lines of the sporting code on ultralights if you contact him... Also Leo Benitti set a respectable one of TX in a too and would know the nitty gritties and I'm sure would be glad to help if you contacted him. relevant:http://records.fai.org/docs/9635-4.pdf His Silent was 281lbs empty for the flight, within D/U *limits. If it were the motorglider version, it would have been 140lbs heavier and I think out of weight for the category. You should be able to extrapolate whether Leah and her Cherokee are too fat for this category or not. If they are over however, I recommend different verbiage to convey this point ![]() -p not to mention there are a few woodstocks out there. Good point Paul, I'll check in with Gary and Leo. I had read Leo's flight report in Soaring, what a story.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - the entry for the Silent 2 pure glider on the Sailplane Directory says: --- Several World records have been set with the Silent 2 in the FAI Class- DU. A basic airframe combined with reasonable pilot weight will generally result in a take-off weight under the 220kg (485 lbs) maximum allowable required for the FAI's DU Class. --- and the maximum allowed weight (mass) is shown as 245 kg. This seems to indicate that the mass at takeoff is all that matters. |
#7
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It is the take-off mass that is limited for DU class records. I was
the official observer for Gary's world records in the SparrowHawk. We used the empty weight of the glider and weighed Gary and his gear before the flight. I did a weight calculation and signed it and sent it in with the rest of the paperwork. I don't know if a more accurate weighing would be required if one was close to the limit. In Gary's case, the take-off weight was 406.9 lbs., so the maximum weight limit wasn't an issue. Have fun and good luck with the records! Doug Taylor and the maximum allowed weight (mass) is shown as 245 kg. *This seems to indicate that the mass at takeoff is all that matters. |
#8
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On Tuesday, August 17, 2010 at 9:21:26 PM UTC-5, Tony wrote:
On Aug 17, 7:41Â*pm, BTiz wrote: On Aug 17, 7:56Â*am, Tony wrote: Curious, Sporting Code 3 defines the Ultralight Class as a take off weight of less than 220 kg, or 485 lbs. Â*Is this maximum allowed takeoff weigth or the actual weight of the glider for that flight? Tony... as I read the sporting code.. they always refer to "Mass", whether it be max or minimum attainable. So to me, in the US to read, "ULTRALIGHT, a glider with a takeoff mass not exceeding 220 kg," that means maximum gross weight. Are you considering that you can get an ULTRALIGHT record if you can fly your glider below 220kg, even if you can actually carry more according to the TCDS? Perhaps a letter to the FAI or the SSA Badge Lady is needed? BT The sporting code does not have different meaning in the US vs. other countries. Not me, but I think there is a possibility that a light person in Leah's Cherokee II would be under the Ultralight limit and the Feminine World Record for Free Distance in the Ultralight class is only 150ish kilometers. There are NO US Feminine records in the Ultralight class. Go Leah, GO! |
#9
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In article BTiz writes:
On Aug 17, 7:56=A0am, Tony wrote: Curious, Sporting Code 3 defines the Ultralight Class as a take off weight of less than 220 kg, or 485 lbs. =A0Is this maximum allowed takeoff weigth or the actual weight of the glider for that flight? Tony... as I read the sporting code.. they always refer to "Mass", whether it be max or minimum attainable. So to me, in the US to read, "ULTRALIGHT, a glider with a takeoff mass not exceeding 220 kg," that means maximum gross weight. Much of the world does not report weights of things, but they report masses in kilograms (or grams). A mass of 220 Kg would "weigh" 485 pounds. There is no reason for the use of a mass measurement to imply that it is the certificated maximum gross takeoff weight. It could be: 1. The empty weight. This is how the part 103 definitions are written. 2. The weight as actually flown. 3. The maximum legal gross weight at takeoff. Since we do our flying on a planet with a fairly constant gravitational accelleration, we can safely use mass or weight units of measurement. Again, the international code refers to MASS because that is the way that most of the world records these things. (NOTE: often they measure with a spring scale, which is actually measuring force, but it may indicate the mass (assuming normal earth gravity).) Alan |
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