Crunch Alert (USA) - hugely serious but (apparently) non-fatal

Reportedly, the problem occurred at about 5,000 ft AGL and the aircraft inverted and entered a flat spin. Angel departed the aircraft about 3,500 to 3,800 feet AGL.

Mike

I've often wondered about the amount of altitude loss that occurs when exiting an aircraft in distress. Here it was about 1,500 feet in what would seem to be ideal circumstances - inverted (I have no idea what part centrifugal force was playing in this case).

Doesn't bode well for someone in a deep cockpit in an upright attitude. Maybe it's time to look seriously at DG's NOAH system...

-John

On Tuesday, May 1, 2012 9:42:52 AM UTC-4, Mike the Strike wrote:
Reportedly, the problem occurred at about 5,000 ft AGL and the aircraft inverted and entered a flat spin. Angel departed the aircraft about 3,500 to 3,800 feet AGL.

Mike

On Tuesday, May 1, 2012 10:43:53 AM UTC-4, John Carlyle wrote:
I've often wondered about the amount of altitude loss that occurs when exiting an aircraft in distress. Here it was about 1,500 feet in what would seem to be ideal circumstances - inverted (I have no idea what part centrifugal force was playing in this case).

Doesn't bode well for someone in a deep cockpit in an upright attitude. Maybe it's time to look seriously at DG's NOAH system...

-John

On Tuesday, May 1, 2012 9:42:52 AM UTC-4, Mike the Strike wrote:
Reportedly, the problem occurred at about 5,000 ft AGL and the aircraft inverted and entered a flat spin. Angel departed the aircraft about 3,500 to 3,800 feet AGL.

Mike

John,

I watched a number of pilots trying to get out of their gliders at Perry on the ground. Between an excess of personal ballast and declining muscle strength, I'd be willing to bet half of them could never get out with any increased lateral or positive, vertical loading.

Related to this, I'm curious why static lines aren't prevalent in the US. It seems all of the European made gliders have a provision for the static line. Any of our Euro friends care to illuminate us on whether use of static lines is common there?

Don't know about static lines, but someone on the group (maybe Kirk Stant?) made a suggestion that if all else failed when trying to exit an aircraft in distress, lean all the way forward and pull the ripcord. He said you would get hurt, but you'd also be out. A last resort tip I'm going to remember!

Wearing a parachute I struggle to get out of my LS8 while sitting on the ground. I can't see me making it out in the air with increased lateral or positive vertical loading, but hopefully adrenalin can work wonders if I'm ever unlucky enough to need to exit...

-John

On Tuesday, May 1, 2012 11:00:02 AM UTC-4, Papa3 wrote:
John,

I watched a number of pilots trying to get out of their gliders at Perry on the ground. Between an excess of personal ballast and declining muscle strength, I'd be willing to bet half of them could never get out with any increased lateral or positive, vertical loading.

Related to this, I'm curious why static lines aren't prevalent in the US. It seems all of the European made gliders have a provision for the static line. Any of our Euro friends care to illuminate us on whether use of static lines is common there?

At 15:00 01 May 2012, Papa3 wrote:


I watched a number of pilots trying to get out of their gliders at Perry
on=
the ground. Between an excess of personal ballast and declining muscle
s=
trength, I'd be willing to bet half of them could never get out with any
in=
creased lateral or positive, vertical loading. =20

I think you might find that adrenaline takes over in that situation

Related to this, I'm curious why static lines aren't prevalent in the US.

=
It seems all of the European made gliders have a provision for the static
l=
ine. Any of our Euro friends care to illuminate us on whether use of
stati=
c lines is common there?

Static lines are not used here in the UK for the very good reason that
pilots tend to exit the glider wearing the parachute and walk away. I think
the fitting of a static line loop in the glider was an LBA requirement but
as far as I am aware no one uses it for the reason given above.

If you want a good laugh have a look at this. The demonstrator is
attempting to show that the practice of undoing the chest strap before the
leg straps is unecessary because you won't ever get dragged by the chute.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Kx-buGUOhw

I was in flight that day and recall hearing a few pilots asking if anyone
had heard from Angel lately. I didn't learn of his misfortune until the
next morning. From descriptions I've heard of the accident, it sounds like
a rudder cable broke. I have not seen the wreck and I'm not a professional
accident investigator, this is just my opinion based on what I've heard.
I've also looked at another JS-1 on the field and there's a frayed rudder
cable.

It seems like all modern gliders use the same or a variation of the same
mechanism for connecting and adjusting rudder cables and pedals. You can
bet that, before my next flight in my LAK-17a, I'll be giving those parts a
very close look.

I was shocked to hear of Angel's accident and am so glad that he survived.



"Don Johnstone" wrote in message
. com...
At 15:00 01 May 2012, Papa3 wrote:


I watched a number of pilots trying to get out of their gliders at Perry
on=
the ground. Between an excess of personal ballast and declining muscle
s=
trength, I'd be willing to bet half of them could never get out with any
in=
creased lateral or positive, vertical loading. =20

I think you might find that adrenaline takes over in that situation

Related to this, I'm curious why static lines aren't prevalent in the US.

=
It seems all of the European made gliders have a provision for the static
l=
ine. Any of our Euro friends care to illuminate us on whether use of
stati=
c lines is common there?

Static lines are not used here in the UK for the very good reason that
pilots tend to exit the glider wearing the parachute and walk away. I
think
the fitting of a static line loop in the glider was an LBA requirement but
as far as I am aware no one uses it for the reason given above.

If you want a good laugh have a look at this. The demonstrator is
attempting to show that the practice of undoing the chest strap before the
leg straps is unecessary because you won't ever get dragged by the chute.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Kx-buGUOhw

On 5/1/2012 9:20 AM, Dan Marotta wrote:
I was in flight that day and recall hearing a few pilots asking if
anyone had heard from Angel lately. I didn't learn of his misfortune
until the next morning. From descriptions I've heard of the accident, it
sounds like a rudder cable broke. I have not seen the wreck and I'm not
a professional accident investigator, this is just my opinion based on
what I've heard. I've also looked at another JS-1 on the field and
there's a frayed rudder cable.


Where on the cable is it frayed? At the rudder? At the pedals?


It seems like all modern gliders use the same or a variation of the same
mechanism for connecting and adjusting rudder cables and pedals. You can
bet that, before my next flight in my LAK-17a, I'll be giving those
parts a very close look.

What I saw was approximately 6 inches forward of the forward bulkhead. Just
about where the cable enters the S-tube.


"Greg Arnold" wrote in message
...
On 5/1/2012 9:20 AM, Dan Marotta wrote:
I was in flight that day and recall hearing a few pilots asking if
anyone had heard from Angel lately. I didn't learn of his misfortune
until the next morning. From descriptions I've heard of the accident, it
sounds like a rudder cable broke. I have not seen the wreck and I'm not
a professional accident investigator, this is just my opinion based on
what I've heard. I've also looked at another JS-1 on the field and
there's a frayed rudder cable.


Where on the cable is it frayed? At the rudder? At the pedals?


It seems like all modern gliders use the same or a variation of the same
mechanism for connecting and adjusting rudder cables and pedals. You can
bet that, before my next flight in my LAK-17a, I'll be giving those
parts a very close look.

On May 1, 9:20*am, "Dan Marotta" wrote:
It seems like all modern gliders use the same or a variation of the same
mechanism for connecting and adjusting rudder cables and pedals. *You can
bet that, before my next flight in my LAK-17a, I'll be giving those parts a
very close look.

If your serial number is 141 or less, service bulletin
017A.5.52.005A already requires installation
of plastic tubes over the rudder cables where they pass through the
pedal attachment S-tubes, to prevent fraying. The tubes should be
visible, if the fix was applied...

Marc

Thanks, Marc. Mine is S/N 119. I'm towing today (leaving for the airport
in 20 minutes) and I'll check that before pulling the tug out of the hangar.


"Marc" wrote in message
...
On May 1, 9:20 am, "Dan Marotta" wrote:
It seems like all modern gliders use the same or a variation of the same
mechanism for connecting and adjusting rudder cables and pedals. You can
bet that, before my next flight in my LAK-17a, I'll be giving those parts
a
very close look.

If your serial number is 141 or less, service bulletin
017A.5.52.005A already requires installation
of plastic tubes over the rudder cables where they pass through the
pedal attachment S-tubes, to prevent fraying. The tubes should be
visible, if the fix was applied...

Marc