Janus 2-seat glider as a club glider?

Depends on what you want to use it for. Ab initio: no way. Advanced
trainer: not ideal. As a cross-country trainer it is well suited. Flaps, so
a bit more complicated to fly than other sialplanes for some pilots.
Relatively high landing speed. Forget about the drag chute (it works about
50-50 chance). It is a pig in maintenance in a club environment, especially
above 3000 hours. I had one that was on its 3rd set of wing-fuse pins, 7th
set of stabilizer attachments and play on controls was a constant issue.
The ironwares on Schempp-Hirth are disappointingly low quality, alas.

Le jeudi 17 janvier 2013 08:35:59 UTC+1, Eric Munk a écrit*:
Depends on what you want to use it for. Ab initio: no way.

Why? I've been with a club in Germany (also as instructor) which did ab-initio including first solo on a Janus B (later on on a Janus C).
No problem whatsoever.

Thanks for that.

It's not about the complexity of the aircraft, it's entirely about the
quality of the instruction.


wrote in message
...
Le jeudi 17 janvier 2013 08:35:59 UTC+1, Eric Munk a écrit :
Depends on what you want to use it for. Ab initio: no way.

Why? I've been with a club in Germany (also as instructor) which did
ab-initio including first solo on a Janus B (later on on a Janus C).
No problem whatsoever.

The light dawns!

On Sunday, January 27, 2013 9:48:24 AM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
Thanks for that.



It's not about the complexity of the aircraft, it's entirely about the

quality of the instruction.





wrote in message

...

Le jeudi 17 janvier 2013 08:35:59 UTC+1, Eric Munk a �crit :

Depends on what you want to use it for. Ab initio: no way.



Why? I've been with a club in Germany (also as instructor) which did

ab-initio including first solo on a Janus B (later on on a Janus C).

No problem whatsoever.

Dream on... We're continually bombarded these days with messages that we
can't do this or that, or a particular feature of the car won't work while
in motion "For Your Safety". Thanks a lot, Ford... Nevermind that my wife
is a GPS fiend and the air bag sensor in the passenger seat says she's
there.

No, if it's got flaps it's "too difficult", or that's "too much to keep
track of". And don't get me started on tail wheels. Three trips around the
pattern in an L-19 with retractable skis and I was cut loose to have fun in
the Alaskan bush. But that was in the early 70s when men were still men...


"Bill D" wrote in message
...
The light dawns!

On Sunday, January 27, 2013 9:48:24 AM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
Thanks for that.



It's not about the complexity of the aircraft, it's entirely about the

quality of the instruction.





wrote in message

...

Le jeudi 17 janvier 2013 08:35:59 UTC+1, Eric Munk a �crit :

Depends on what you want to use it for. Ab initio: no way.



Why? I've been with a club in Germany (also as instructor) which did

ab-initio including first solo on a Janus B (later on on a Janus C).

No problem whatsoever.

In 1959 my primary glider trainer was a war-surplus LK10A - probably the least suitable trainer I've ever flown. However, it did teach me to recognize impending spin departures before things got out of hand. The hand wringing about flaps is amusing. Every airplane trainer these days has flaps - and, of course, an engine to manage. Come to think of it, gliders are probably the only aircraft still manufactured without flaps.

On Sunday, January 27, 2013 6:24:32 PM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
Dream on... We're continually bombarded these days with messages that we

can't do this or that, or a particular feature of the car won't work while

in motion "For Your Safety". Thanks a lot, Ford... Nevermind that my wife

is a GPS fiend and the air bag sensor in the passenger seat says she's

there.



No, if it's got flaps it's "too difficult", or that's "too much to keep

track of". And don't get me started on tail wheels. Three trips around the

pattern in an L-19 with retractable skis and I was cut loose to have fun in

the Alaskan bush. But that was in the early 70s when men were still men....





"Bill D" wrote in message

...

The light dawns!



On Sunday, January 27, 2013 9:48:24 AM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:

Thanks for that.







It's not about the complexity of the aircraft, it's entirely about the



quality of the instruction.











wrote in message



...



Le jeudi 17 janvier 2013 08:35:59 UTC+1, Eric Munk a �crit :



Depends on what you want to use it for. Ab initio: no way.







Why? I've been with a club in Germany (also as instructor) which did



ab-initio including first solo on a Janus B (later on on a Janus C).



No problem whatsoever.

.... *The hand wringing about flaps is amusing. *Every airplane trainer
these days has flaps - and, of course, an engine to manage. *Come to
think of it, gliders are probably the only aircraft still manufactured
without flaps.

I've wondered about that too. I'd never flown a flapped ship until I
bought one. It didn't seem to be very complicated at the time, and
still doesn't.

On Sunday, January 27, 2013 11:48:24 AM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
It's not about the complexity of the aircraft, it's entirely about the
quality of the instruction.

Yep.

Reminds me of a visit to a local glider club a couple decades
back, where I watched a Janus B make several extremely firm
arrival/bounce/vigorous arrival kinda landings. I inquired as
to who was the instructor in charge, and went and offered to
shoot a few landings with the guys who seemed to be having a
lot of trouble. After my kind offer was declined, someone
came and informed me that the instructor I spoke to had
been flying those, um, arrivals, oooops...

The club then disposed of the "too difficult" aircraft...

Gotta agree Dan. I have known 2 ladies that did ab-initio training to solo and beyond in a Janus A and both turned out fine pilots. The quality of instruction is certainly what seals the deal

At my club we have a Duo X and a Discus CS that some people struggle to fly well and it is down to the lack of top quality instruction and a culture among some of the newer and older pilots where they are more concerned with getting 'credentialed' than actually gaining real skill. Just getting a box ticked off in the training syllabus to some of them means "I know all I have to about that now" instead of "I'm judged competent at that and I can now work on getting more skilled at it"

:-) Colin

Originally Posted by Dan Marotta

Thanks for that.

It's not about the complexity of the aircraft, it's entirely about the
quality of the instruction.


wrote in message
...
Le jeudi 17 janvier 2013 08:35:59 UTC+1, Eric Munk a écrit :
Depends on what you want to use it for. Ab initio: no way.

Why? I've been with a club in Germany (also as instructor) which did
ab-initio including first solo on a Janus B (later on on a Janus C).
No problem whatsoever.

It's not about the complexity of the aircraft, it's entirely about the
quality of the instruction.

We do about 4000-5000 instructional flights a year, mostly on ASK-21's,
about half of that is ab initio, and we like to think that our standard of
instruction is pretty good. Our experience is that however well you train
students, they sooner or later still need just that little extra room for
error while honing their skills, especially when flying early solos. An
ASK-21 will give that room. A Janus C is a lot less likely to do so. Then
there's also the maintenance point of view: Schempp-Hirth just does not
stand up to the punishment and wear Schleicher can take.

It's not a question of being able to use a Janus C for ab initio. Sure you
can. But does that mean I would want to? No. Not when there's so much
better available.

Just my two cents.