Experience with Flarm "Stealth" and Competition modes

The advantage is with power flarm you can see the climb rate of others around you as well as where they are. Imagine seeing 3 gliders 3 miles out with two of them going up 250 fpm and the third going up at 700 fpm. I have a good idea which thermal you will be heading to. It is very fun to see how everyone around you is actually climbing.

Bruno - B4

On Saturday, May 25, 2013 3:39:14 PM UTC-4, wrote:
The advantage is with power flarm you can see the climb rate of others around you as well as where they are. Imagine seeing 3 gliders 3 miles out with two of them going up 250 fpm and the third going up at 700 fpm. I have a good idea which thermal you will be heading to. It is very fun to see how everyone around you is actually climbing.



Bruno - B4

I can't count the number of times I dashed over to a climbing sailplane only to NOT find lift below it. LOL! Some say the one above was in a rising "bubble"; I think it more likely I just was off that day.

On Saturday, May 25, 2013 4:56:33 AM UTC-7, Evan Ludeman wrote:
On Saturday, May 25, 2013 1:33:27 AM UTC-4, Rtr wrote: New to soaring. The fear is that others will follow you to good lift? Some of us simply feel that tracking competitors via radio isn't really in the spirit of the game, that's all. In practice it's probably moot. Looking out the window generally yields better information. T8

Some of us feel it is in the spirit of the game and so does Europe and so does Flarm

If you don't want to be seen or see others go to the stealth mode but please don't impose on others.

Richard

At 19:01 24 May 2013, Evan Ludeman wrote:


Stealth mode appears to work great if all you want is anti-collision
warnin=
g. Guess what? All I want from flarm in contest flying is
anti-collision
=
warning. Again, it works well. You've said several times 'not
recommended=
' in all caps, but you've never stated a reason. If there is an
engineerin=
g or safety related reason, please state it. I'm tempted by context to
pre=
sume the real reason is marketing (the ability to track other
pilots....).

T8
From the Flarm website @
http://www.flarm.com/support/Flarm_Competitions.pdf

Stealth mode inherently reduces some of the benefits of situation awareness
for yourself and surrounding aircraft. Wedo not recommend the use of
Stealth mode, but it is better than turning FLARM® off for tactical
reasons.

The aim of FLARM is to assist you in maintaining good situation awareness.
If you choose deliberately to degrade the information available to you then
you must inevitably reduce your situational awaremess AND just as important
reduce the situational awareness of another pilot, who may not even be
flying your competition, with respect for your. That is why Stealth mode is
not recommended. Like all recomendations it can be ignored but at your own
peril.

On May 24, 10:36*pm, FLARM wrote:
Evan,
We have had no complaints about 'Stealth' not doing what it is supposed to do, so far.
Please send your log file to info@flarm with above comment.

Yes, Stealth Mode is silly and should not be used, but it's a lot better to use it than to unplug FLARM for fear of being followed...

Thanks
FLARM

I agree with Evan on this one. I have found that pilots with less
talent are the main ones wanting to keep full mode in competitions.
The stealth mode provides all the warnings required and non-stealth
mode provides both distraction and crutches to pilots. It is on of
the greatest leaching tools ever invented. The argument that Europe is
not using stealth mode is apples to oranges, we are seeing better than
10 miles (16 km) constantly with PowerFLARM. This is way more than is
needed for situational awareness and safety.


I think PowerFlarm is great for everyday flying, but Stealth mode
should be used in competition. I have flown two nationals with
PowerFlarm and found it interesting and useful but it also is drawing
the pilot's focus back in the cockpit and reducing decision making by
many pilots. They just follow the triangles out in front of them.

TT

On Sunday, May 26, 2013 12:24:16 PM UTC-7, Tim Taylor wrote:
On May 24, 10:36*pm, FLARM wrote: Evan, We have had no complaints about 'Stealth' not doing what it is supposed to do, so far.. Please send your log file to info@flarm with above comment. Yes, Stealth Mode is silly and should not be used, but it's a lot better to use it than to unplug FLARM for fear of being followed... Thanks FLARM I agree with Evan on this one. I have found that pilots with less talent are the main ones wanting to keep full mode in competitions. The stealth mode provides all the warnings required and non-stealth mode provides both distraction and crutches to pilots. It is on of the greatest leaching tools ever invented. The argument that Europe is not using stealth mode is apples to oranges, we are seeing better than 10 miles (16 km) constantly with PowerFLARM.. This is way more than is needed for situational awareness and safety. I think PowerFlarm is great for everyday flying, but Stealth mode should be used in competition. I have flown two nationals with PowerFlarm and found it interesting and useful but it also is drawing the pilot's focus back in the cockpit and reducing decision making by many pilots. They just follow the triangles out in front of them. TT

I beleive it should be on the Racing Pilot opinion questionaire 2013 and go with the majority opinion and the recommendations of the manufacturer.

And please send your Powerflarm back to me and I will exchange for one that operates correctly. In over 250 hours of testing I have never seen 10 Miles. The PowerFlarm on steriods you have will go in my glider.


Richard

On Sunday, May 26, 2013 3:24:16 PM UTC-4, Tim Taylor wrote:
On May 24, 10:36*pm, FLARM wrote: Evan, We have had no complaints about 'Stealth' not doing what it is supposed to do, so far.. Please send your log file to info@flarm with above comment. Yes, Stealth Mode is silly and should not be used, but it's a lot better to use it than to unplug FLARM for fear of being followed... Thanks FLARM I agree with Evan on this one. I have found that pilots with less talent are the main ones wanting to keep full mode in competitions. The stealth mode provides all the warnings required and non-stealth mode provides both distraction and crutches to pilots. It is on of the greatest leaching tools ever invented. The argument that Europe is not using stealth mode is apples to oranges, we are seeing better than 10 miles (16 km) constantly with PowerFLARM.. This is way more than is needed for situational awareness and safety. I think PowerFlarm is great for everyday flying, but Stealth mode should be used in competition. I have flown two nationals with PowerFlarm and found it interesting and useful but it also is drawing the pilot's focus back in the cockpit and reducing decision making by many pilots. They just follow the triangles out in front of them. TT

Agree completely
One more way to enable leeches.
UH

My experience with US power flarm radar consists of one contest at Perry, where I hooked my flarm brick to my Clearnav. (Other gliders seem to have disappeared from the Clearnav screen with recent updates, which I hope will be fixed.)

Yes, you can see other gliders and Flarm's idea of their climb rates, at distances of a few miles. In my experience, I was never able to successfully join one of them in a thermal. But I guess the potential is there.

On the other hand, I found the greater situational awareness of the Flarm radar, that would not be provided by collision warnings alone, of great benefit, both for safety and for contest enjoyment.

Pre-start gaggles in misty conditions (start height was not set well below cloudbase) showed up very nicely. It was a great benefit to know there were 10 gliders I couldn't see in the cloud ahead, before the collision warnings started going nuts. Collision warning means look down, see where Flarm thinks the glider is, look up, find the glider, avoid it, try not to run in to another one.

A similar thing happened in cruise. I went one way, another half of the gaggle went another way. 15 miles later I could see on the flarm radar that we were converging again, at exactly the same altitude. I like to think we all look 90 degrees to the left and right frequently enough to pick up gliders converging to the cloud ahead. But it sure was nice to know about it all well before collision warnings started going off.

I found it enjoyable too. I would not have known where the other half of the gaggle went. Seeing where they went and where I went in real time, realizing we made exactly the same speed to the next cloud was interesting. It didn't make any difference to the race, but it's fun to know where people are..

Similarly, on one long leg with no turns, it seemed to me looking out the window that I was completely alone. I would not have known about the 10 gliders just behind me without the Flarm radar. Useful for safety, and interesting if not very valuable in the contest.

I see a strong chance that Flarm radar will lead to a bit less gaggling. Now, if you want to fly with the gaggle, you must stay in visual contact which is quite close. If it works to join other gliders by flarm, you can afford to go off a bit more on your own and not worry you'll be alone all day.

In sum, with this experience, I see flarm radar as possibly having a very slight competitive benefit. It has a slight, but definite, enjoyment benefit.. And it has, a substantial safety benefit. Knowing where they are before the collision alarm goes off and I have a Big Problem Right Now is a good thing.

In any case, fear that this is the End Of Soaring As We Know It, that a new generation of techies will take over who just watch screens and leech along like a big video game, seems highly overstated, at least based on my experience with current equipment in this contest.

John Cochrane

This discussion reminds me of the one we had about whether GPS should be allowed in racing. The argument in con was that we would eliminate the testing of ones navigating skills if we allowed GPS in the cockpit. That turned out to be true -- but so what. GPS has greatly enhanced the sport by ensuring that we know where we are and that is a darn good thing to know.

Now the idea of knowing about nearby thermal locations and strengths is a similar kind of game changer. I'll be looking forward to the day when my computer is automatically analizing all the nearby climb reports and sorting for those that are task relevant with voice advisement like: "Tango Tango climbing six knots, 3 miles 12 starboard at seven point four". The computer could even map the air ahead of me and remember about the strength and location of thermals that may be recently vacated and steer me through them and away from the sink. Done right, there may be no heads down time and minimal distraction -- just soaring goodness. It will be like having a generational improvement in your glider at the cost of some software that is yet to be written. Not to worry, the computer will be listening to the radio and won't step on that important radio gibber.

For now, folks that want to extract tidbits with quick glances to the little display can do so while those that prefer to play stealth can exercise that option. Stealth mode is quite a clever resolution. I see nothing to complain about from either camp.

The ability to locate gliders climbing in thermals some distance away may prove to be less useful than many might imagine. Many thermals are cyclical and I have ended up sinking below gliders climbing above me in a nice warm bubble of ascending air more times than I care to think about.

Mike