FLARM in Stealth Mode at US 15M/Standard Nationals - Loved It!

On Wednesday, August 5, 2015 at 7:08:08 AM UTC-7, Papa3 wrote:
The US 15M/Standard Class Nationals required FLARM to be in stealth mode for the duration of the contest. I have to say, I absolutely enjoyed the experience. FLARM became what it was always supposed to be - a collision avoidance tool - rather than a tactical leaching tool. I found that I would get alerts for gliders in the same thermal or approaching/exiting the thermal up to about 1 mile away, but no more. Not a single surprise conflict from a FLARM-equipped glider.

I wonder if others had the same positive experience. I would hope other contests would consider requiring Stealth Mode.


Erik Mann (P3)

It seems to me this eliminates one of the great advantages of Flarm - situational awareness. With a proper display you always know where the other gliders are around you, no need to wait for the alarm to take evasive action.

On Wednesday, August 5, 2015 at 10:09:22 AM UTC-5, jfitch wrote:


It seems to me this eliminates one of the great advantages of Flarm - situational awareness. With a proper display you always know where the other gliders are around you, no need to wait for the alarm to take evasive action..

And you still have that same situational awareness for any planes near you. You just are not told who it is and how fast they are going up or down. The only thing lost is the ability to change where you go based on information about what the air is doing at some distance away from you.

Bingo.

On Wednesday, August 5, 2015 at 8:25:10 AM UTC-7, Papa3 wrote:
Bingo.

Very good.
Wasn't that the point of the instrument?
Jim

On Wednesday, August 5, 2015 at 8:19:17 AM UTC-7, Steve Leonard wrote:
On Wednesday, August 5, 2015 at 10:09:22 AM UTC-5, jfitch wrote:


It seems to me this eliminates one of the great advantages of Flarm - situational awareness. With a proper display you always know where the other gliders are around you, no need to wait for the alarm to take evasive action.

And you still have that same situational awareness for any planes near you. You just are not told who it is and how fast they are going up or down. The only thing lost is the ability to change where you go based on information about what the air is doing at some distance away from you.

So you get a glider symbol on the display with no contest number and no rate of climb? What about altitude? I have found the rate of climb indication pretty useless, too coarse and discontinuous to be of use for leeching. If you can see the glider you can better assess their relative climb by eye. But position and altitude are necessary for situational awareness.

You get the glider symbol and relative altitude. My experience was actually an aural warning first - " Traffic, one o'clock high". Because my eyes were outside the cockpit. There was no reason to look at the scope.

XC

On Wednesday, August 5, 2015 at 4:28:33 PM UTC-4, wrote:
You get the glider symbol and relative altitude. My experience was actually an aural warning first - " Traffic, one o'clock high". Because my eyes were outside the cockpit. There was no reason to look at the scope.

XC

This agrees with my experience also.
"Traffic 12 o'clock high" is all I need. I had no reason to look inside at all.
UH

I wonder how the stealth mode advocates would feel about a compromise: You can see gliders at any range, with relative altitude, but no climb information.

The anti-stealth sentiment (mine, I must admit) wants more situational awareness than stealth allows; we don't want to find out about other gliders barreling down a cloudstreet the other way at less than a mile, when a collision is imminent.

What I hear from stealth advocates seems to be that seeing actual climb rates is the biggest objection. Knowing gliders are out there at greater distances seems not to be too big a deal.

Compromise?

John Cochrane BB

What is "situational awareness" exactly in this context? I've heard it used by two different people. My understanding is that Flarm Warnings are not impacted by stealth mode; the same algorithms are used to determine threats, including fast moving threats from other gliders (e.g. head on at high speed). I can see for sure that Flarm was still picking up gliders at the typical ranges I see in "regular" mode based on the attached Flarm Range Analyzer results from my August 2 flight. Average detection range was 7..5km based on a pretty large sample of over 3100 points.

P3





On Wednesday, August 5, 2015 at 6:06:42 PM UTC-4, John Cochrane wrote:
I wonder how the stealth mode advocates would feel about a compromise: You can see gliders at any range, with relative altitude, but no climb information.

The anti-stealth sentiment (mine, I must admit) wants more situational awareness than stealth allows; we don't want to find out about other gliders barreling down a cloudstreet the other way at less than a mile, when a collision is imminent.

What I hear from stealth advocates seems to be that seeing actual climb rates is the biggest objection. Knowing gliders are out there at greater distances seems not to be too big a deal.

Compromise?

John Cochrane BB

On Wednesday, August 5, 2015 at 6:06:42 PM UTC-4, John Cochrane wrote:
I wonder how the stealth mode advocates would feel about a compromise: You can see gliders at any range, with relative altitude, but no climb information.

The anti-stealth sentiment (mine, I must admit) wants more situational awareness than stealth allows; we don't want to find out about other gliders barreling down a cloudstreet the other way at less than a mile, when a collision is imminent.

What I hear from stealth advocates seems to be that seeing actual climb rates is the biggest objection. Knowing gliders are out there at greater distances seems not to be too big a deal.

Compromise?

John Cochrane BB

My idea of compromise is anything that provides awareness of imminent collision while providing no useful tactical information.
If you can see gliders ahead, you know where they think or know the lift is and you can chase them. Adding climb rate and altitude only makes it more useful, attractive and compelling in use.
I flew in Stealth at Mifflin and found it completely satisfactory dealing with oncoming traffic in the ridge(closing speeds 200+).
UH