Tow Pilot Currency and Proficiency

On Sunday, May 15, 2016 at 11:43:02 AM UTC-7, Walt Connelly wrote:
snipped out a hunk

I was a bit surprised to learn exactly what was
required to remain current as a tow pilot. As stated, a tow pilot is
required to either do three actual or simulated tows in the preceding 24
months while accompanied by another qualified, current tow pilot…..OR by
making three launches by aerotow as pilot in command of a glider in the
preceding 24 months. It is this second manner of regaining currency
that I find nebulous. This method certainly doesn’t speak to the
proficiency of said pilot in a tow plane.

Walt:
Think about it this way....
those towing regs haven't changed in a good long time (2004, 2009).
Maybe we're just building some awareness of the reg (a good thing).

A towpilot gets to ride with another tow pilot once every 24 months and
hopefully have someone to talk with regarding signals, procedures, the peculiarities of towing; unless they are actively being towed in the glider
on the other end, and being reminded how important the tow-champion-pilot is to the safety of the parade. (We can do that in ASEL and simulate lowered rate of climb, if there is no two-seat tug around.)

The FAA allows someone who spends some regular time ( maybe a veneer with only 3 tows in a year) being towed -- to expose themselves to the responsibility of
being up front. Perhaps the FAA view is that a current glider pilot is more likely to remember what a glider pilot would want from a towpilot.

Personally, I instruct a lot in gliders, seldom keep 90 day recency in single-engine lately, but I am qualified to give a towing endorsement. Yet, to do that part of the work in ASEL, I would need to go do three full stops to get category currency before being PIC in a two-seat tug with another human. I would want a few takeoffs and landings in any tug, before I hooked a glider behind me. According to the FARs, I don't need another towpilot to refresh me -- because the accident record for folks like me don't justify changing the reg to be any more restrictive. (Thanks be.)


About Student Pilots: this 2016 change is a result of US Congressional mandate to background check 'all' student pilots before flight training as a result of 9/11/2001. FAA held it off about as long as they could . . . .
and it is less of a change than you might imagine.

...my understanding is that now one
cannot apply until they are 14 years of age yet a 14 year old is
permitted to solo a glider on their birthday but without the student
pilot certificate that cannot happen.

A youngster could never be issued a Student Cert before their 14th birthday.. But the methods of issuance had several ways of collecting one at 8 or 9 am
on the youngster's birthday, allowing them to fly later that same day. They could collect the certificate in an AME office, at a DPE's convenience or in the FSDO office.

Right now, the FAA says they cannot APPLY till they are 14, on-line applications only(mostly), and then wait two or three weeks for the airman card to be issued. SSA is pursuing the option to APPLY prior to the magic day, and have the applicant background checked ( hah)
and the card created and mailed with an issuance date of the birthday.


I wonder how much input there might be from high time tow pilots and
glider pilots, instructors and glider port operators to the agency when
such regulations are established? Seems like there is a major
disconnect somewhere.

Walt

Yeah - there is a disconnect.
Much as all the alphabet groups would LOVE to have conversations with the FAA staff following an NPRM and prior to FAA issuing a final rule.... the FAA's own rules prohibit them from doing that ( being lobbied they call it). Hence we have these bug-a-boos that Washington staff didn't foresee, due to them not envisioning every nuance of the different categories.

SSA is working with FAA. We really do expect to have a couple things worked out this summer in favor of soaring. So please, encourage folks to continue to renew memberships and support the SSA's work. And we do encourage folks to comment on NPRMs about soaring when they occur, tow pilots, sailplane owners, A&Ps, clubs officers, gliderport owners. All of us.

Thanks for listening patiently.

Cindy B
SSA Region 12 Director

Originally Posted by CindyB[_2_]

On Sunday, May 15, 2016 at 11:43:02 AM UTC-7, Walt Connelly wrote:
snipped out a hunk

I was a bit surprised to learn exactly what was
required to remain current as a tow pilot. As stated, a tow pilot is
required to either do three actual or simulated tows in the preceding 24
months while accompanied by another qualified, current tow pilot…..OR by
making three launches by aerotow as pilot in command of a glider in the
preceding 24 months. It is this second manner of regaining currency
that I find nebulous. This method certainly doesn’t speak to the
proficiency of said pilot in a tow plane.

Walt:
Think about it this way....
those towing regs haven't changed in a good long time (2004, 2009).
Maybe we're just building some awareness of the reg (a good thing).

A towpilot gets to ride with another tow pilot once every 24 months and
hopefully have someone to talk with regarding signals, procedures, the peculiarities of towing; unless they are actively being towed in the glider
on the other end, and being reminded how important the tow-champion-pilot is to the safety of the parade. (We can do that in ASEL and simulate lowered rate of climb, if there is no two-seat tug around.)

The FAA allows someone who spends some regular time ( maybe a veneer with only 3 tows in a year) being towed -- to expose themselves to the responsibility of
being up front. Perhaps the FAA view is that a current glider pilot is more likely to remember what a glider pilot would want from a towpilot.

Personally, I instruct a lot in gliders, seldom keep 90 day recency in single-engine lately, but I am qualified to give a towing endorsement. Yet, to do that part of the work in ASEL, I would need to go do three full stops to get category currency before being PIC in a two-seat tug with another human. I would want a few takeoffs and landings in any tug, before I hooked a glider behind me. According to the FARs, I don't need another towpilot to refresh me -- because the accident record for folks like me don't justify changing the reg to be any more restrictive. (Thanks be.)


About Student Pilots: this 2016 change is a result of US Congressional mandate to background check 'all' student pilots before flight training as a result of 9/11/2001. FAA held it off about as long as they could . . . .
and it is less of a change than you might imagine.

...my understanding is that now one
cannot apply until they are 14 years of age yet a 14 year old is
permitted to solo a glider on their birthday but without the student
pilot certificate that cannot happen.

A youngster could never be issued a Student Cert before their 14th birthday.. But the methods of issuance had several ways of collecting one at 8 or 9 am
on the youngster's birthday, allowing them to fly later that same day. They could collect the certificate in an AME office, at a DPE's convenience or in the FSDO office.

Right now, the FAA says they cannot APPLY till they are 14, on-line applications only(mostly), and then wait two or three weeks for the airman card to be issued. SSA is pursuing the option to APPLY prior to the magic day, and have the applicant background checked ( hah)
and the card created and mailed with an issuance date of the birthday.


I wonder how much input there might be from high time tow pilots and
glider pilots, instructors and glider port operators to the agency when
such regulations are established? Seems like there is a major
disconnect somewhere.

Walt

Yeah - there is a disconnect.
Much as all the alphabet groups would LOVE to have conversations with the FAA staff following an NPRM and prior to FAA issuing a final rule.... the FAA's own rules prohibit them from doing that ( being lobbied they call it). Hence we have these bug-a-boos that Washington staff didn't foresee, due to them not envisioning every nuance of the different categories.

SSA is working with FAA. We really do expect to have a couple things worked out this summer in favor of soaring. So please, encourage folks to continue to renew memberships and support the SSA's work. And we do encourage folks to comment on NPRMs about soaring when they occur, tow pilots, sailplane owners, A&Ps, clubs officers, gliderport owners. All of us.

Thanks for listening patiently.

Cindy B
SSA Region 12 Director

Cindy B, thank you for your indepth analysis of my post. I am all for training, retraining, currency and maintaining awareness of all that is necessary for the safe operation of the towplane. That being said and having read your response it still makes little sense to me that three aerotows in a glider would make one recurrent to fly the tow plane, especially if they have flown little to no tows in the last year or two. My logical, practical side seems to overwhelm any other position I or anyone else might take on this subject. I am not current in a glider to fly passengers although I still fall within the 24 month requirement of 3 aerotows. Again I don't think this alone would safely permit me to fly the towplane.

I have flown tow for about a year and a half and have logged over 3700, it keeps you on your "toes" pardon the pun. I have learned that experience is the great teacher and I have also tried to continually study, read, ask questions and make myself as familiar as possible with the process. I take my flying very seriously and have had the opportunity to tow some of the best in the country and world along with students on their first solo and licensed pilots who seem to forget what they are doing at times. As I am sure you are aware there is a great disparity in skill level.

One of my problems with the FARs is that the I find myself getting lost in the legalese. I went to college and graduate school and still find myself reading and rereading each line trying to make sense of it all. I continually ask myself what it is that I don't know and what am I violating? How many glider add-ons have been completed by power pilots who haven't flown in years and who had no flight review in the last two years? I don't believe that even the DPEs have been aware of this rule. Too many rules, regs and laws and not enough common sense.

Walt

On 5/18/2016 10:34 AM, Walt Connelly wrote:
I am not current in a glider to
fly passengers although I still fall within the 24 month requirement of
3 aerotows. Again I don't think this alone would safely permit me to
fly the towplane.

In many-many different ways, simply complying with the FARs is not
sufficient to guarantee even a minimum of safety. That is why insurance
requirements often go well beyond the FARs, and why we must apply our
own common sense every time we fly.

Believe me, if the FARs were really written with maximum safety in mind,
you wouldn't like the result! For example: As it stands, for small
aircraft you normally don't even legally need a checkout to fly a
different aircraft within the class and category you are certified for.
Obviously that could be dangerous, right? So would you be happier with
a requirement for a separate type rating for every different model of
aircraft? I know I wouldn't!

Let's apply common sense to our flying and never even imply that we need
more regulations!

Vaughn

Originally Posted by Vaughn Simon[_2_]

On 5/18/2016 10:34 AM, Walt Connelly wrote:
I am not current in a glider to
fly passengers although I still fall within the 24 month requirement of
3 aerotows. Again I don't think this alone would safely permit me to
fly the towplane.

In many-many different ways, simply complying with the FARs is not
sufficient to guarantee even a minimum of safety. That is why insurance
requirements often go well beyond the FARs, and why we must apply our
own common sense every time we fly.

Believe me, if the FARs were really written with maximum safety in mind,
you wouldn't like the result! For example: As it stands, for small
aircraft you normally don't even legally need a checkout to fly a
different aircraft within the class and category you are certified for.
Obviously that could be dangerous, right? So would you be happier with
a requirement for a separate type rating for every different model of
aircraft? I know I wouldn't!

Let's apply common sense to our flying and never even imply that we need
more regulations!

Vaughn

Vaughn,

I don't believe that I implied that we need more regulations. I do believe we need to eliminate regulations with bring nothing regarding safety to the table such as allowing someone to become recurrent and qualified to fly tow after having flown a glider on three aerotows. I'm fine with the three actual or simulated tows with another qualified tow pilot.

Walt

On Wednesday, May 18, 2016 at 11:43:02 AM UTC-7, Walt Connelly wrote:

snipped a big hunk out

.. According to the FARs, I don't
need another towpilot to refresh me -- because the accident record for
folks like me don't justify changing the reg to be any more restrictive..
(Thanks be.)





Cindy B, thank you for your indepth analysis of my post.

Sure, you're welcome.

I am all for
training, retraining, currency and maintaining awareness of all that is
necessary for the safe operation of the towplane.

Cool. Healthy outlook.

snipped out more . .
My logical, practical side seems to overwhelm any other position I or
anyone else might take on this subject. I am not current in a glider to
fly passengers although I still fall within the 24 month requirement of
3 aerotows. Again I don't think this alone would safely permit me to
fly the towplane.

I have flown tow for about a year and a half and have logged over 3700,
it keeps you on your "toes" pardon the pun. I have learned that
experience is the great teacher and I have also tried to continually
study, read, ask questions and make myself as familiar as possible with
the process. I take my flying very seriously

Also good.

As I am sure you are aware there is a great
disparity in skill level.

Yep.


One of my problems with the FARs is that the I find myself getting lost
in the legalese. I went to college and graduate school and still find
myself reading and rereading each line trying to make sense of it all. I
continually ask myself what it is that I don't know and what am I
violating?
Healthy pass-time too.

How many glider add-ons have been completed by power pilots
who haven't flown in years and who had no flight review in the last two
years? I don't believe that even the DPEs have been aware of this
rule. Too many rules, regs and laws and not enough common sense.

The No-Flight-Review=No-Solo-in-New-Category came about as an INTERPRETATION
that was issued by FAA, not a rule change. A minority voice asked for FAA to inspect the regs and answer their question. Had that not happened, we would have happily continued as before. The common sense should have been the step of not waking the sleeping dog . . . failed on that one. And FAA has indicated a willingness to resolve this by a prompt sensible act in rule changes.

Meanwhile, let's encourage refresher programs in training, and keep the accidents involving towpilots to a minimum. If we don't create an accident
rate due to this 'oversight'..... we won't get a new reg.

Cindy



Walt




--
Walt Connelly

The No-Flight-Review=No-Solo-in-New-Category came about as an INTERPRETATION
that was issued by FAA, not a rule change. A minority voice asked for FAA to inspect the regs and answer their question. Had that not happened, we would have happily continued as before. The common sense should have been the step of not waking the sleeping dog . . . failed on that one. And FAA has indicated a willingness to resolve this by a prompt sensible act in rule changes.

Meanwhile, let's encourage refresher programs in training, and keep the accidents involving towpilots to a minimum. If we don't create an accident
rate due to this 'oversight'..... we won't get a new reg.

Cindy







--
Walt Connelly[/quote]

I am currently reading 14 CFR Part 61. I have a headache and need some ice cream. Let's find that minority voice and silence him forever. (tongue in cheek)


Walt