18m Nationals weight restriction at Seminole

On Friday, 9 March 2018 09:35:06 UTC-7, Andrzej Kobus wrote:
On Friday, March 9, 2018 at 11:05:04 AM UTC-5, Andy Blackburn wrote:
"The approach you suggest would have conferred an advantage to the specific glider you are flying that is not part of the philosophy or rules of the FAI 18M class"

Andy, I can't believe what you wrote, did you read it before you sent it? Did you write it in the name of the Rules committee or is it your own opinion?

What advantage would I get, if I fly at the same wing loading as an ASG-29?
You must be kidding the 18M class weight restriction is 1320 lb. By limiting the weight you are handicapping me more than you are handicapping an ASG-29. On the east coast the optimum wing loading is around 10 lb/sq foot. You let the ASG-29 fly with that wing loading while handicapping me to 9 lb/sq foot. If not for the restriction I would be able to fly at the optimal wing loading. How is that fair? It seems to me the competition should never have been allowed to be held at an airport that can not handle the requirements of the 18 m class. Hopefully this is the last time Seminole is awarded a FAI class competition.

Andrej, while I understand your passion and desire to 'level the playing field' IMHO safety has to be number one priority. A 10/lb per sq ft wing loading does you no good if you are on the ground in a field or the swamp around Seminole because the tow plane had to release you for their own safety.

In 2016 at Nephi we intentionally launched the open class last each day for safety. Even with 5,000 feet plus of usable runway getting 800 Kg open class gliders in the air safely was on the margin even with the most powerful tow planes. We took heat for it but it is just the right thing to do. Yes it caused shorter tasks some days but we had 100% safety record for launches and that was our goal and priority.

Your statement 'It seems to me the competition should never have been allowed to be held at an airport that can not handle the requirements of the 18 m class. Hopefully this is the last time Seminole is awarded a FAI class competition.' is short sighted and selfish. The number of locations that are able and willing to host contests is shrinking across the US. IMO compromises, like a weight limit, are acceptable for some locations.

With that said, I do believe that the SSA contest committee and site selection committee should have caught this sooner (folks that volunteer on these committees have and do fly out of Seminole) and had this information available to interested pilots at time of sanctioning and/or registration.

Ron Gleason

If 1150lb is what is decided as the max safe tow weight, then you could set the wing loading limit to highest entered wing area glider / 1150lb.

Handicap on wingloading, advantage the JS1. Handicap on weight, advantage the ASG29.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

On Friday, March 9, 2018 at 8:59:44 AM UTC-8, Ron Gleason wrote:
On Friday, 9 March 2018 09:35:06 UTC-7, Andrzej Kobus wrote:
On Friday, March 9, 2018 at 11:05:04 AM UTC-5, Andy Blackburn wrote:
"The approach you suggest would have conferred an advantage to the specific glider you are flying that is not part of the philosophy or rules of the FAI 18M class"

Andy, I can't believe what you wrote, did you read it before you sent it? Did you write it in the name of the Rules committee or is it your own opinion?

What advantage would I get, if I fly at the same wing loading as an ASG-29?
You must be kidding the 18M class weight restriction is 1320 lb. By limiting the weight you are handicapping me more than you are handicapping an ASG-29. On the east coast the optimum wing loading is around 10 lb/sq foot. You let the ASG-29 fly with that wing loading while handicapping me to 9 lb/sq foot. If not for the restriction I would be able to fly at the optimal wing loading. How is that fair? It seems to me the competition should never have been allowed to be held at an airport that can not handle the requirements of the 18 m class. Hopefully this is the last time Seminole is awarded a FAI class competition.

Andrej, while I understand your passion and desire to 'level the playing field' IMHO safety has to be number one priority. A 10/lb per sq ft wing loading does you no good if you are on the ground in a field or the swamp around Seminole because the tow plane had to release you for their own safety..

In 2016 at Nephi we intentionally launched the open class last each day for safety. Even with 5,000 feet plus of usable runway getting 800 Kg open class gliders in the air safely was on the margin even with the most powerful tow planes. We took heat for it but it is just the right thing to do. Yes it caused shorter tasks some days but we had 100% safety record for launches and that was our goal and priority.

Your statement 'It seems to me the competition should never have been allowed to be held at an airport that can not handle the requirements of the 18 m class. Hopefully this is the last time Seminole is awarded a FAI class competition.' is short sighted and selfish. The number of locations that are able and willing to host contests is shrinking across the US. IMO compromises, like a weight limit, are acceptable for some locations.

With that said, I do believe that the SSA contest committee and site selection committee should have caught this sooner (folks that volunteer on these committees have and do fly out of Seminole) and had this information available to interested pilots at time of sanctioning and/or registration.

Ron Gleason

On Friday, March 9, 2018 at 12:08:31 PM UTC-5, wrote:
If 1150lb is what is decided as the max safe tow weight, then you could set the wing loading limit to highest entered wing area glider / 1150lb.

Handicap on wingloading, advantage the JS1. Handicap on weight, advantage the ASG29.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Absolutely, that is how they should have done this to be fair.