Wanting to start a new glider club

If it were up to me I'd consider winch launching seeing as those mountains are very conveniently located.

Some advantages of a winch operation:
1. I would think that a second hand winch would be much cheaper to purchase than a type certified, tug aircraft. You don't need the latest SkyLaunch system to get gliders airborne.
2. Operational expenses of a winch are typically a fraction of those of a type certified aircraft. No annual inspections, no mandatory expensive overhaul schedules, much lower fuel consumption per launch, etc. A tug costs money to maintain even if it sits in a hangar doing nothing over winter.
3. You don't require a pilot with a tug rating. Sourcing and retaining tug rated pilots appears to be a problem for a number of soaring operations around the world.

I'm sure Bruno from Utah Soaring Association (Nephi) would be able to point you in the right direction if you are interested in setting up a winch launching operation. https://sites.google.com/site/nephisoaring/about-us

At 06:29 24 April 2018, Surge wrote:
If it were up to me I'd consider winch launching seeing as those
mountains
=
are very conveniently located.

Some advantages of a winch operation:
1. I would think that a second hand winch would be much cheaper
to
purchase=
than a type certified, tug aircraft. You don't need the latest
SkyLaunch
s=
ystem to get gliders airborne.
2. Operational expenses of a winch are typically a fraction of those
of a
t=
ype certified aircraft. No annual inspections, no mandatory
expensive
overh=
aul schedules, much lower fuel consumption per launch, etc. A tug
costs
mon=
ey to maintain even if it sits in a hangar doing nothing over winter.
3. You don't require a pilot with a tug rating. Sourcing and
retaining tug
=
rated pilots appears to be a problem for a number of soaring
operations
aro=
und the world.

I'm sure Bruno from Utah Soaring Association (Nephi) would be
able to
point=
you in the right direction if you are interested in setting up a
winch
lau=
nching operation.
https://sites.google.com/site/nephisoaring/about-us

or maybe reverse pulley autotow - would be cheapest system to set
up if ground launching is allowed.

On Tuesday, April 24, 2018 at 2:29:30 AM UTC-4, Surge wrote:
If it were up to me I'd consider winch launching seeing as those mountains are very conveniently located.

Some advantages of a winch operation:
1. I would think that a second hand winch would be much cheaper to purchase than a type certified, tug aircraft. You don't need the latest SkyLaunch system to get gliders airborne.
2. Operational expenses of a winch are typically a fraction of those of a type certified aircraft. No annual inspections, no mandatory expensive overhaul schedules, much lower fuel consumption per launch, etc. A tug costs money to maintain even if it sits in a hangar doing nothing over winter.
3. You don't require a pilot with a tug rating. Sourcing and retaining tug rated pilots appears to be a problem for a number of soaring operations around the world.

I'm sure Bruno from Utah Soaring Association (Nephi) would be able to point you in the right direction if you are interested in setting up a winch launching operation. https://sites.google.com/site/nephisoaring/about-us

If you don't want to buy a brand new factory built winch or build one for yourself, consider buying a used one and importing it. Take a look he
http://www.segelflug.de/osclass/inde...&sCategory=107
A 40' container with a DG500 in a trailer from Bremerhaven to Charleston, SC cost us under 2,000€. For most winches, a 20' one will do. Granted, you would have to add the transport to MT but that would still be cheaper than buying and maintaining a tug.
Building a winch from scratch is a fun club project but to get it right, seek the advice of those who have done it - this is not a 'hold my beer - watch this' project.

Uli
'AS'

On Tue, 24 Apr 2018 04:50:11 -0700, AS wrote:

On Tuesday, April 24, 2018 at 2:29:30 AM UTC-4, Surge wrote:
If it were up to me I'd consider winch launching seeing as those
mountains are very conveniently located.

Some advantages of a winch operation:
1. I would think that a second hand winch would be much cheaper to
purchase than a type certified, tug aircraft. You don't need the latest
SkyLaunch system to get gliders airborne.
2. Operational expenses of a winch are typically a fraction of those of
a type certified aircraft. No annual inspections, no mandatory
expensive overhaul schedules, much lower fuel consumption per launch,
etc. A tug costs money to maintain even if it sits in a hangar doing
nothing over winter.
3. You don't require a pilot with a tug rating. Sourcing and retaining
tug rated pilots appears to be a problem for a number of soaring
operations around the world.

I'm sure Bruno from Utah Soaring Association (Nephi) would be able to
point you in the right direction if you are interested in setting up a
winch launching operation.
https://sites.google.com/site/nephisoaring/about-us

If you don't want to buy a brand new factory built winch or build one
for yourself, consider buying a used one and importing it. Take a look
he
http://www.segelflug.de/osclass/inde...&sCategory=107 A
40' container with a DG500 in a trailer from Bremerhaven to Charleston,
SC cost us under 2,000€. For most winches, a 20' one will do. Granted,
you would have to add the transport to MT but that would still be
cheaper than buying and maintaining a tug.
Building a winch from scratch is a fun club project but to get it right,
seek the advice of those who have done it - this is not a 'hold my beer
- watch this' project.

As part of following Uli's suggestions, its probably worth taking a look
at this Skylaunch page

http://www.skylaunch.com/index2.php

because they have a range of products, from new build winches through re-
engineered older winches to what are effectively short kits for clubs
wanting to save money by building their own, and seeing the range of
possibilities and their cost implications should help your decision-
making.

My UK club has two winches; a new Skylaunch and one of their re-
engineered Tost winches. We operate seven days a week in summer and 5
days a week in winter (weather permitting - which it didn't this year)
and need two winches during the summer so operations are not impacted by
taking a winch offline for servicing.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

On Tuesday, April 24, 2018 at 8:35:29 AM UTC-4, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Tue, 24 Apr 2018 04:50:11 -0700, AS wrote:

On Tuesday, April 24, 2018 at 2:29:30 AM UTC-4, Surge wrote:
If it were up to me I'd consider winch launching seeing as those
mountains are very conveniently located.

Some advantages of a winch operation:
1. I would think that a second hand winch would be much cheaper to
purchase than a type certified, tug aircraft. You don't need the latest
SkyLaunch system to get gliders airborne.
2. Operational expenses of a winch are typically a fraction of those of
a type certified aircraft. No annual inspections, no mandatory
expensive overhaul schedules, much lower fuel consumption per launch,
etc. A tug costs money to maintain even if it sits in a hangar doing
nothing over winter.
3. You don't require a pilot with a tug rating. Sourcing and retaining
tug rated pilots appears to be a problem for a number of soaring
operations around the world.

I'm sure Bruno from Utah Soaring Association (Nephi) would be able to
point you in the right direction if you are interested in setting up a
winch launching operation.
https://sites.google.com/site/nephisoaring/about-us

If you don't want to buy a brand new factory built winch or build one
for yourself, consider buying a used one and importing it. Take a look
he
http://www.segelflug.de/osclass/inde...&sCategory=107 A
40' container with a DG500 in a trailer from Bremerhaven to Charleston,
SC cost us under 2,000€. For most winches, a 20' one will do. Granted,
you would have to add the transport to MT but that would still be
cheaper than buying and maintaining a tug.
Building a winch from scratch is a fun club project but to get it right,
seek the advice of those who have done it - this is not a 'hold my beer
- watch this' project.

As part of following Uli's suggestions, its probably worth taking a look
at this Skylaunch page

http://www.skylaunch.com/index2.php

because they have a range of products, from new build winches through re-
engineered older winches to what are effectively short kits for clubs
wanting to save money by building their own, and seeing the range of
possibilities and their cost implications should help your decision-
making.

My UK club has two winches; a new Skylaunch and one of their re-
engineered Tost winches. We operate seven days a week in summer and 5
days a week in winter (weather permitting - which it didn't this year)
and need two winches during the summer so operations are not impacted by
taking a winch offline for servicing.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

Martin is correct. I met with the Skylaunch engineering team at past SSA-conventions and they would be a good company to partner with, if you want to rehabilitate and upgrade an older winch.
The same goes for Roman's Design made winches. Our local CAP wing had a Roman's Design winch for a season and it was a very well built unit. Either way, getting a commercial manufacturer involved will have the advantage of receiving an engineered solution that works but at a cost. So if your group is made up from folks that have two left hands with only thumbs on them, it is best to spend the money and get professional help. I have seen way too many examples of winches thrown together by shade-tree mechanics who thought they knew what they were doing.

Uli
'AS'

At 14:13 24 April 2018, AS wrote:


Martin is correct. I met with the Skylaunch engineering team at
past
SSA-co=
nventions and they would be a good company to partner with, if
you want to
=
rehabilitate and upgrade an older winch.
The same goes for Roman's Design made winches. Our local CAP
wing had a
Rom=
an's Design winch for a season and it was a very well built unit.
Either
wa=
y, getting a commercial manufacturer involved will have the
advantage of
re=
ceiving an engineered solution that works but at a cost. So if your
group
i=
s made up from folks that have two left hands with only thumbs on
them, it
=
is best to spend the money and get professional help. I have seen
way too
m=
any examples of winches thrown together by shade-tree mechanics
who
thought=
they knew what they were doing.

Uli
'AS'

It may be simpler than that. What you appear to have in the US that
we don't have so many of is small machine shops. While building a
winch from scratch may not be the way forward upgrading/repairing
a non functioning winch may be an option. Most of the people
running small machine shops are enthusiasts who just enjoy fixing
stuff and in many cases are first class machinists and engineers.
They do not have to know how to design winches, just fix an old
winch that has been discarded. If you want to look at the sort of
person I am thinking of check out Abom69 and others on Youtube

These are all great suggestions. Thanks for all the responses so far. Keep them coming!

On Tuesday, April 24, 2018 at 8:00:43 AM UTC-7, John Foster wrote:
These are all great suggestions. Thanks for all the responses so far. Keep them coming!

You might try approaching another nearby club to have a weekend camp at your airport. Have a charity fund raising event where rides are given and donations from the rides go to the charity. This will likely be covered by your local media. Everybody that gets a ride, or their parents are potential new club members.

You need to do a financial analysis to determine what initiation fees and dues should be. A place to start are other clubs. Most will share that data.

Tom

On Tuesday, April 24, 2018 at 9:47:28 AM UTC-6, 2G wrote:
On Tuesday, April 24, 2018 at 8:00:43 AM UTC-7, John Foster wrote:
These are all great suggestions. Thanks for all the responses so far. Keep them coming!

You might try approaching another nearby club to have a weekend camp at your airport. Have a charity fund raising event where rides are given and donations from the rides go to the charity. This will likely be covered by your local media. Everybody that gets a ride, or their parents are potential new club members.

You need to do a financial analysis to determine what initiation fees and dues should be. A place to start are other clubs. Most will share that data.

Tom

Thanks Tom

These are good ideas. I've already talked to the nearest club (almost 4hr drive away). I've also thought about getting local news/media involved to get the word out. I've also started a Facebook interest group page, but as of yet, not much activity or interest there other than those I've added myself. I don't anticipate we will be flying before summer of 2019 anyway, but getting some of the groundwork done ahead of time, and trying to stimulate local interest is what I'm working on now. Also thinking of putting up flyers in the local airports pilot's lounges.

Again, keeping costs down and making it accessible to most folks is one of my main goals. Aviation in general is so expensive these days, that it is driving a lot of the younger generation away.

On Monday, April 23, 2018 at 4:56:24 PM UTC-4, John Foster wrote:
Hi everyone

I just started glider flying lessons and I'M HOOKED!!! Unfortunately, the closest glider club is 3:45 hr drive away. I also live in an area that looks to me to be perfect for ridge soaring, with a range of mountains facing the west that runs for at least 85 miles, and possibly longer. We have an airport close by with a 4800' runway, about 2-3 miles west of the mountains. A friend is a CFI and A&P, and is interested in getting his "glider ticket" as well. There are a few other folks in the area that have expressed varying interest in flying gliders as well. But as it currently stands, no one (except one possible individual that I haven't yet talked to) in the area actually flies gliders. My friend and I have talked about the possibility of starting a local club. What would be the best way to go about doing this?

Car tow might be the most economical way to launch, if the a/p mgt.. will let you; looks like 5000ft of hard top, which is more than adequate.
Moreover, driver training is easier than starting a newbie on a winch.
JMF