Janus 2-seat glider as a club glider?

I am interested in learning if other soaring clubs have a Janus 2-seat glider in their fleet, which model they have, its suitability as a club ship and whether they would recommend one to a club that was looking for a 2-seat cross country trainer.
If you have other personal experience in the Janus, your opinion would be appreciated.

On Monday, January 14, 2013 5:07:15 PM UTC-7, K_Miller wrote:
I am interested in learning if other soaring clubs have a Janus 2-seat glider in their fleet, which model they have, its suitability as a club ship and whether they would recommend one to a club that was looking for a 2-seat cross country trainer.

If you have other personal experience in the Janus, your opinion would be appreciated.

http://www.glidingcanterbury.org.nz/ has a Janus Ce.

On Monday, January 14, 2013 4:07:15 PM UTC-8, K_Miller wrote:
I am interested in learning if other soaring clubs have a Janus 2-seat glider in their fleet, which model they have, its suitability as a club ship and whether they would recommend one to a club that was looking for a 2-seat cross country trainer. If you have other personal experience in the Janus, your opinion would be appreciated.

I am co-owner of a Janus C fixed gear. I can't comment on it's suitability as a club glider, but I have some experience rigging and flying one. I have only a Grob 103 to compare with, so any comments will be relative to that glider.
1. Rigs and derigs more easily than the Grob, but those big wings are pretty heavy! Rigging aids make quick work of attaching wings.
2. Slightly easier to fly well despite having long heavy wings.
3. Very wide pilot weight rangee
4. Very good performance.
5. Odd, almost spooky in a full rudder slip. Will happily remain in a full lock slip if you take your feet off the pedals. Takes significant force on the pedals to get the rudder off the stop once locked over.
6. Head room somewhat limited in the front seat, leg room quite limited in the back seat, and the (rear seat) pedals are not adjustable. Front pilot has no GOOD place to put water. Rear pilot has a LOT of space available for water and snacks.

On Monday, January 14, 2013 4:07:15 PM UTC-8, K_Miller wrote:
I am interested in learning if other soaring clubs have a Janus 2-seat glider in their fleet, which model they have, its suitability as a club ship and whether they would recommend one to a club that was looking for a 2-seat cross country trainer. If you have other personal experience in the Janus, your opinion would be appreciated.

The A model is a real hadful. VERY heavy on the ailrons yest sensetive on the full flying stab.I understand that the later models are much better.
Also low VNE
6PK

It depends on the makeup of your club. A lot of primary students? A handful of glider for them.
A lot of rated pilots that want to learn or are qualified for high performance glass? A good ship.
Fixed gear as the Janus C is best in club environments.

T

We, the Soaring Club of Houston, are looking to expand beyond our current training program of the private license and into the cross country development arena. We are looking for a good 2 seat XC ship that the club XC coaches (5000+ hrs in XC) can fly with a newbie and yet keep up with the LS-4, ASW-20 single seaters, without the $120K expense of a Duo Discus.

Would appreciate all input from clubs who have a similar structure and how they solved the 2 seat XC capable ship problem.

Thanks,
Tony
TS1

In my old club we traded an ASK21 against a Janus CE to have better ship for XC and advanced training. In my opinion it worked out very well. The later Janus models are very similar to the Duo Discus at a far lower price. The Duo has an edge on best glide but the Janus will climb better and has similar performance in high speed glides. I flew a competition in the Janus against a fleet of DG1000 and Duo Discus and did not notice a big disadvantage.. The Janus handles water well and has better short landing capabilities than a Duo due to having flaps.

The Duo is more agile and has lighter aileron forces than the Janus, but if well maintained the Janus stick forces are not a problem. Ground handling and rigging is identical to the Duo except for the non-automatic control linkages. With a good trailer and the right technique and some practice rigging is easily done with 3 people and a wing stand.

In my opinion a Janus is suitable for club operation. The flap lever will add extra complexity over a non-flapped ship which may be problem for low time pilots. On the other hand you can fly the Janus with flaps in +8 from takeoff to landing. The Janus will spin nicely depending on flap position and cg but nothing particularly critical. Being a heavy modern two seater my also may also overburden some low time pilots especially when outlanding on short or difficult field – but that also counts for all other comparable gliders.

I only have experience with a well maintained Janus CE built shortly before the first Duos were introduced. As far as I know there were some considerable changes to the older 18m Janus models. The Janus CE is as far as I have experienced very similar to the Duo and definitely the better deal in terms of price.

On Monday, January 14, 2013 4:07:15 PM UTC-8, K_Miller wrote:
I am interested in learning if other soaring clubs have a Janus 2-seat glider in their fleet, which model they have, its suitability as a club ship and whether they would recommend one to a club that was looking for a 2-seat cross country trainer. If you have other personal experience in the Janus, your opinion would be appreciated.

It might be hard to find one available though, at least in the US. The FAA shows only 6 in the country, and ours (12FT)is definately not available!

We (www.hyik.fi) have Janus CT (with sustainer engine). We
also have ASK-21 for basic training, couple Astirs and couple LS
single seaters.

We have 200 hours requirement for Janus solo. It's partly
because of the engine. At the moment it's our only glider with
flaps.

The rear pedals are adjustable, but for me a little too close (i'm
186 cm tall). If I cross my legs while not flying from rear seat it's
OK.

Duo is more elegant to fly. On a good day Janus is very nice
glider to fly, but it is a bit heavy in circling. If you testfly one,
stay on neutral flaps until you have centered to the thermal,
then go to positive flaps if you like.

IMHO Janus prices are low. It is excellent for XC training. I got
introduced to XC flying on 300km flight with Janus. It was then
much easier to start XC flying on my own.



At 00:07 15 January 2013, K_Miller wrote:
I am interested in learning if other soaring clubs have a Janus
2-seat
glider in their fleet, which model they have, its suitability as a
club
ship and whether they would recommend one to a club that
was looking for a
2-seat cross country trainer.
If you have other personal experience in the Janus, your
opinion would be
appreciated.

On Tue, 15 Jan 2013 20:29:10 -0800, tsmolder wrote:

We, the Soaring Club of Houston, are looking to expand beyond our
current training program of the private license and into the cross
country development arena. We are looking for a good 2 seat XC ship that
the club XC coaches (5000+ hrs in XC) can fly with a newbie and yet keep
up with the LS-4, ASW-20 single seaters, without the $120K expense of a
Duo Discus.

My club (Cambridge GC in the UK) has a two seat fleet of 2 ASK21s, a G103
Twin Acro II and a Puchacz. During the summer we operate 24x7 with two
paid instructors who are both good, experienced XC pilots. Given suitable
weather and students with the hours and skills to benefit from the
experience, they regularly fly xc in the ASK 21s off the winch. Typical
flights would be 100 - 150km.

My first XC flight was as P2 in our G103 during the Cambridge Regionals
with probably our best pilots at the time as P1. We won the day, a 218 km
racing task, on handicap and I learnt a huge amount.

I also know a UK club where there's a privately owned Puchacz with a full
XC panel for both pilots.

Judging from what I've seen at CGC, almost any plastic two seater with
performance matching a G103 or better would be suitable for XC training.
However, IMO having at least one instructor with the required XC
experience and capability is more important than getting a better glider.


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