IGC to replace FLARM ? ?

"Intention is to develop own fully secured tracking function with a
possibility of time delay."

It will be tricky to have open access to the hardware and software and also controlled, secure access to the tactical information.

I could see an open source/open hardware system with a mechanical seal protecting some internal private keys and the decryption engine that uses them.

Everybody would broadcast position protected by a public/private key pair. CD puts the private key required to decrypt along with an approved software load into a standard, sealable receiver engine.

It would be nice to allow the contestant to play with everything, but I think secure will require at least some small part of the receive engine to be sealed.

On Sunday, November 11, 2018 at 10:25:00 AM UTC-5, wrote:
"Intention is to develop own fully secured tracking function with a
possibility of time delay."

It will be tricky to have open access to the hardware and software and also controlled, secure access to the tactical information.

I could see an open source/open hardware system with a mechanical seal protecting some internal private keys and the decryption engine that uses them.

Everybody would broadcast position protected by a public/private key pair.. CD puts the private key required to decrypt along with an approved software load into a standard, sealable receiver engine.

It would be nice to allow the contestant to play with everything, but I think secure will require at least some small part of the receive engine to be sealed.

My informed source says the time delay (10 minutes or so) would be used instead of encryption. The time delay can be built into the transmitter. Thus nothing in any receiver could foil it. There would not be an incentive for the pilot to change anything in their transmitter, unless they want to be leached on. I wonder though whether that would create an incentive to start 10 minutes after the best pilots?

Isn't Europe, like the US, on track to require ADSB-out soon? You'll know instantly where everyone is within 100 miles, flarm or no flarm. Putting the knowing where people are genie back in the bottle seems like a hard task.

John Cochrane

On 11/13/18 11:42 AM, John Cochrane wrote:
Isn't Europe, like the US, on track to require ADSB-out soon? You'll know instantly where everyone is within 100 miles, flarm or no flarm. Putting the knowing where people are genie back in the bottle seems like a hard task.

John Cochrane


Are you aware there's no 2020 mandate for gliders in the U.S.?

Why put in place a delayed tracking solution besides instant OGN tracking? This is pointless. FLARM is mandatory in contests. Anyone who is interested may use existing FLARM-based OGN tracking infrastructure and circumvent whatever time delay is implemented in separate transmitters.

On Tuesday, 13 November 2018 22:46:43 UTC+2, wrote:
Why put in place a delayed tracking solution besides instant OGN tracking? This is pointless. FLARM is mandatory in contests. Anyone who is interested may use existing FLARM-based OGN tracking infrastructure and circumvent whatever time delay is implemented in separate transmitters.

You are right. As long as there is flarm in the glider it can be tracked real time from ground, no matter what. I guess using new tracking system would mean that pilots switch off their flarms in competitions. This is a problem that has so far only bad solutions.

At 18:35 13 November 2018, wrote:
On Sunday, November 11, 2018 at 10:25:00 AM UTC-5,
wrote:
"Intention is to develop own fully secured tracking function
with a
possibility of time delay."
=20
It will be tricky to have open access to the hardware and
software and
al=
so controlled, secure access to the tactical information.
=20
I could see an open source/open hardware system with a
mechanical seal
pr=
otecting some internal private keys and the decryption engine
that uses
the=
m.
=20
Everybody would broadcast position protected by a
public/private key
pair=
.. CD puts the private key required to decrypt along with an
approved
softw=
are load into a standard, sealable receiver engine.
=20
It would be nice to allow the contestant to play with
everything, but I
t=
hink secure will require at least some small part of the receive
engine to
=
be sealed.

My informed source says the time delay (10 minutes or so)
would be used
ins=
tead of encryption. The time delay can be built into the
transmitter.
Thu=
s nothing in any receiver could foil it. There would not be an
incentive
f=
or the pilot to change anything in their transmitter, unless they
want to
b=
e leached on. I wonder though whether that would create an
incentive to
st=
art 10 minutes after the best pilots?


10 minute delay ? I thought the idea of FLARM was for safety,
perhaps they are they expecting messages such as:
“there was a glider 2 miles out on a collision course 10 minutes
ago, the fact that you are reading this message suggests that you
saw and avoided it without my help ! Have a nice day�
Sounds rather like something the late Douglas Adams would come
up with.

On Tuesday, November 13, 2018 at 2:00:06 PM UTC-8, Benedict Smith wrote:
At 18:35 13 November 2018, wrote:
On Sunday, November 11, 2018 at 10:25:00 AM UTC-5,
wrote:
"Intention is to develop own fully secured tracking function
with a
possibility of time delay."
=20
It will be tricky to have open access to the hardware and
software and
al=
so controlled, secure access to the tactical information.
=20
I could see an open source/open hardware system with a
mechanical seal
pr=
otecting some internal private keys and the decryption engine
that uses
the=
m.
=20
Everybody would broadcast position protected by a
public/private key
pair=
.. CD puts the private key required to decrypt along with an
approved
softw=
are load into a standard, sealable receiver engine.
=20
It would be nice to allow the contestant to play with
everything, but I
t=
hink secure will require at least some small part of the receive
engine to
=
be sealed.

My informed source says the time delay (10 minutes or so)
would be used
ins=
tead of encryption. The time delay can be built into the
transmitter.
Thu=
s nothing in any receiver could foil it. There would not be an
incentive
f=
or the pilot to change anything in their transmitter, unless they
want to
b=
e leached on. I wonder though whether that would create an
incentive to
st=
art 10 minutes after the best pilots?


10 minute delay ? I thought the idea of FLARM was for safety,
perhaps they are they expecting messages such as:
“there was a glider 2 miles out on a collision course 10 minutes
ago, the fact that you are reading this message suggests that you
saw and avoided it without my help ! Have a nice day�
Sounds rather like something the late Douglas Adams would come
up with.

Aren't we confusing tracking capability with collision avoidance capability?
This appears to be a move to build a new "live" tracking mechanism. Latency is an option often used for contest tracking.
Jim

Such live tracking systems based on collision avoidance techology already exist for quite a while (Flightradar24, OGN). Since 2017 FLARM based OGN has been used more or less as the standard tracking tool on competitions in Europe. It has to be made sure that collision avoidance is not reduced due to this 2nd nature of FLARM.

ADSB is not mandated in Europe. The CAA wanted to mandate SSR in UK but
this was sent down pending the development of low cost / low power ADSB.
This is now available from Uavionics at about £400. At that price I expect
a wide take up in the UK. Why wouldn't you want to know about spam cans,
CAT, drones, and helicopters as well as gliders and why would you want to
hide from ATC??

So in practice the rule makers for gliding competition cannot ban
conspicuity / situational awareness tools from the cockpit as this would
compromise safety. The genie is well and truly out of the bottle. As it was
with GPS etc.

It is possible to slow him down though. You write the rule that no data
(nor voice) is allowed from ground to cockpit and no data other than
required for SA / safety between pilots.

Yes, this is virtually impossible to police but if the penalty was a 5 year
ban from competition, it may still work.

Jim