IFR GPS replace DME / ADF?

Hello,

I'm new to IFR and just learning... if our plane doesn't have an ADF or
a DME... can we legally use, say a garmin 430, to do a NDB approach?
Also, can these garmin 430/480/530 units get you the DME?

Also, are RNAVs still used often?

Thanks,

-dr

An IFR certifed GPS can replace a NDB or DME waypoint or fix, but you can
not use it to do an NDB or DME arc approach. That being said, there will
probably be aGPS approach similar to the NDB approach at whatever airport
you go to.
The GARMIN 430/530/480 can get you a distance to a waypoint that will be
very close to a DME distance (remember DME measures slant height, GPS
measures lateral distance)

A NON IFR GPS can NOT legaly replace a NDB or DME fix.

RNAV's are still used. There are a lot of installed KNS-80's out there

Hope that helps.
Ian

wrote in message
oups.com...
Hello,

I'm new to IFR and just learning... if our plane doesn't have an ADF or
a DME... can we legally use, say a garmin 430, to do a NDB approach?
Also, can these garmin 430/480/530 units get you the DME?

Also, are RNAVs still used often?

Thanks,

-dr

Thanks Ian!

Hello everyone,

I just wanted to post that the Initial poster is using a canadian email
address and the rules in canada are a little bit different with regards
to the use of a GPS to fly a DME arc.

In Canada AIC 27/05 says:

6.0 Use of GNSS in Lieu of Ground-based Aids GNSS may be used to
identify all fixes defined by distance measuring equipment (DME), VOR,
VOR/DME and NDB, including fixes that are part of any instrument
approach procedure, to navigate to and from these fixes along specific
tracks, including arcs, and to report distances along airways or tracks
for separation purposes, subject to the following conditions:


Regards,

If you are looking for canadian rules, I strongly suggest that you
refer to Transport Canada website.

Thanks!

On 05/06/06 17:35, wrote:
Hello,

I'm new to IFR and just learning... if our plane doesn't have an ADF or
a DME... can we legally use, say a garmin 430, to do a NDB approach?

No. However, there are only a few cases where the GPS cannot be used
to identify an NDB or for DME. There is a section in the AIM that
talks about this. Look for a section called "Use of GPS in lieu of ADF/DME"
or something similar.


Also, can these garmin 430/480/530 units get you the DME?

It's not really DME, since DME is the actual distance to the station,
including the vertical distance (slant range) while the GPS will show
distance from/to a way point assuming no vertical distance.

For most purposes, this difference can be ignored, and the GPS
distance can be used in lieu of DME (again, see the AIM for the
exceptions).

Another point about GPS "distances" is that it generally provides
distance to the selected way point. This is not always the ground
station from which you would be receiving a DME signal.


Also, are RNAVs still used often?

GPS is RNAV, so yes.
There are also other types of RNAV...


Thanks,

-dr




--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA

On 05/06/06 17:35, wrote:

Hello,

I'm new to IFR and just learning... if our plane doesn't have an ADF or
a DME... can we legally use, say a garmin 430, to do a NDB approach?


No.

Why not? If you'll go direct with a handheld then why not shoot an NDB
approach with an IFR certified panel mount GPS such as a 430?

On 05/07/06 07:08, Newps wrote:

On 05/06/06 17:35, wrote:

Hello,

I'm new to IFR and just learning... if our plane doesn't have an ADF or
a DME... can we legally use, say a garmin 430, to do a NDB approach?


No.

Why not? If you'll go direct with a handheld then why not shoot an NDB
approach with an IFR certified panel mount GPS such as a 430?

The AIM section on use of GPS in lieu of NDB/DME explains why.

Now, if the NDB approach includes a GPS overlay, that's different.
The question was not about an NDB (GPS) approach, but an NDB approach.


--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA

Mark Hansen wrote:
On 05/07/06 07:08, Newps wrote:

On 05/06/06 17:35, wrote:


Hello,

I'm new to IFR and just learning... if our plane doesn't have an ADF or
a DME... can we legally use, say a garmin 430, to do a NDB approach?


No.

Why not? If you'll go direct with a handheld then why not shoot an NDB
approach with an IFR certified panel mount GPS such as a 430?


The AIM section on use of GPS in lieu of NDB/DME explains why.

Now, if the NDB approach includes a GPS overlay, that's different.
The question was not about an NDB (GPS) approach, but an NDB approach.



"Tower, this will be a low approach only."

Newps wrote:

Why not? If you'll go direct with a handheld then why not shoot an NDB
approach with an IFR certified panel mount GPS such as a 430?

For one reason, the approach won't be in the GPS database.