Piper pilots! Need Warrior Help!

John Galban wrote:


Dave wrote:

The plot thickens!

I mn finding the same. (note links posted above) from several sources.

This 14 knts had to come from SOMEWHERE...



I'm thinking that "Prior 77 stall = 58" might have come from the
point where Piper shifted from using MPH to Knots for their performance
figures. 58 mph is right where the dirty stall should be on most 150 -
180 hp PA28s. Where the "44" came from is anybody's guess. 58 mph
converted to knots is around 50-51 kts. Perhaps the missing 6 kts
might come from a measurement in indicated airspeed rather than
calibrated airspeed.

One thing I can tell you is that they all stall at around the same
speed. There were no drastic changes that changed the stall
characteristics from '76 to 77.

If you're seriously considering buying one, this is not something you
should spend a lot of time worrying about.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

The stall speed is 44 kts. Speed on final should be 1.3 times that:
44*1.3 = 57.

I agree... not worried at all...

I just could not come to terms with the numbers, 1 yr apart..

Here are two of the sources that got me wondering..

Look here ..

http://www.pilotfriend.com/Piper%20aircraft.htm

and
http://www.premi-air.co.nz/singlespe...iper+PA-28-151

All #'s are in knts....

Dave



On 3 Jun 2005 16:48:18 -0700, "John Galban"
wrote:



Dave wrote:
The plot thickens!

I mn finding the same. (note links posted above) from several sources.

This 14 knts had to come from SOMEWHERE...


I'm thinking that "Prior 77 stall = 58" might have come from the
point where Piper shifted from using MPH to Knots for their performance
figures. 58 mph is right where the dirty stall should be on most 150 -
180 hp PA28s. Where the "44" came from is anybody's guess. 58 mph
converted to knots is around 50-51 kts. Perhaps the missing 6 kts
might come from a measurement in indicated airspeed rather than
calibrated airspeed.

One thing I can tell you is that they all stall at around the same
speed. There were no drastic changes that changed the stall
characteristics from '76 to 77.

If you're seriously considering buying one, this is not something you
should spend a lot of time worrying about.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

Dave wrote:
Hi All!

OK... Piper Warrior...PA28-151

Considering purchase...

It's is a 1976 Model..

Specs, (published) say stall, dirty ( Full Flaps ) for a 1976
built is 58 knts.


Knots or MPH? I was once accused by a very inexperienced flight instructor of
flying too fast on an engine out approach in a Lance because the airspeed
indicator was in MPH instead of knots. I flew the proper speed for MPH. He'd
apparently never flown an airplane with its airspeed indicator showing anything
but knots.

58 knots seems pretty hot for a dirty stall speed.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE

"Dave" wrote in message
...
Hi All!

OK... Piper Warrior...PA28-151

Considering purchase...

It's is a 1976 Model..

Specs, (published) say stall, dirty ( Full Flaps ) for a 1976
built is 58 knts.

...1977 and later is 44 knts!

WHAT changes were made to bring the stall speed down by 14
knts!

I have looked at both, I cannot (untrained eye) see what is
different..

Owner of the '76 says 52 knts(w/flaps) , 58 knts "clean"
(????)

Tis a huge difference... is this correct? Why? Can the 76 be
modified to get the stall speed lower?

Can any one help here?

What is the story?

Thanks in advance!

Dave

The earlier 151s have frise ailerons as opposed to the cheaper piano hinges
on the later ones. Give much smoother handling. with the piano hinged
ailerons the aileron it self has ridges to try and retain the airflow over
the ailerons.

The earlier 151s have frise ailerons as opposed to the cheaper piano
hinges on the later ones. Give much smoother handling. with the piano
hinged ailerons the aileron it self has ridges to try and retain the
airflow over the ailerons.

No offense, and maybe I'm just an insensitive clod at the controls, but I've
got over 800 hours in Cherokees of all flavors, my '75 had the Frise
ailerons -- and to say that the piano hinge versions provide "much smoother
handling" just ain't true.

In fact, the handling differences are so slight as to be inconsequential.
(Which, of course, is why Piper switched back to the easier-to-build piano
hinged versions...) If I were blindfolded and told to fly either version,
there is no way I would be able to tell you which is which in flight. (On
the ground they DO feel different, IMO -- but who cares on the ground?)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:cOhoe.17175$nG6.3465@attbi_s22...
The earlier 151s have frise ailerons as opposed to the cheaper piano
hinges on the later ones. Give much smoother handling. with the piano
hinged ailerons the aileron it self has ridges to try and retain the
airflow over the ailerons.

No offense, and maybe I'm just an insensitive clod at the controls, but
I've got over 800 hours in Cherokees of all flavors, my '75 had the Frise
ailerons -- and to say that the piano hinge versions provide "much
smoother handling" just ain't true.

In fact, the handling differences are so slight as to be inconsequential.
(Which, of course, is why Piper switched back to the easier-to-build piano
hinged versions...) If I were blindfolded and told to fly either
version, there is no way I would be able to tell you which is which in
flight. (On the ground they DO feel different, IMO -- but who cares on
the ground?)

I did not say the piano hinge ailerons were smoother than the frise, quite
the contrary but I would say the do feel different in the air and that's my
experience.

On 2005-06-03 23:43, Dave wrote:
Hi All!

OK... Piper Warrior...PA28-151

Considering purchase...

It's is a 1976 Model..

Specs, (published) say stall, dirty ( Full Flaps ) for a 1976
built is 58 knts.

...1977 and later is 44 knts!

WHAT changes were made to bring the stall speed down by 14
knts!

I have looked at both, I cannot (untrained eye) see what is
different..

Owner of the '76 says 52 knts(w/flaps) , 58 knts "clean"
(????)

Tis a huge difference... is this correct? Why? Can the 76 be
modified to get the stall speed lower?

Can any one help here?

What is the story?

Thanks in advance!

Dave

I haven't gone beyond a websearch, so I can't verify this,
but there may be a reason in the wing profile change around that time.

According to a paragraph in:
http://www.whittsflying.com/Page5.66Piper.htm

quote

When Piper went from the Hershey-bar wing to the tapered wing there was
a dramatic shift in the critical approach airspeed. The short wing
required that the pilot never allow the approach speed get slow. Arrive
in ground effect too slow and you would fall right through it. Result
was numerous fuel leaks since tanks were adjacent to landing gear. The
tapered wing gave the opposite problem. Any approach speed that was
slightly fast would cause excessive float. Short runways were the scenes
of numerous overruns.

end quote

This was said to have happened in -78, so maybe it's unrelated.

Otherwise I understood that:
Short wing (Hershey-bar) = model# ends in 0
Long wing= model# ends in 1

Maybe your -76 151 still has a short wing? confusing.


/Rolf

On 2005-06-07 17:19, Rolf Blom wrote:
-snip-

never mind; I see it was solved in a later post.

/Rolf