Radar contact before squawk

Once when I was working graveyards, and off work but awake at night, I
made a night XC at about 4 am across the local Class B airspace. When I
landed, I shut down, refueled and when departing popped up with approach
for flight following. No sooner than I released the mic, he relied
Radar Contact, and gave me a squawk code.

Chances are, I was the only guy within 30 miles he was working.

Dave

David Brooks wrote:
I learned something Friday night while getting in some night solo time. I
called Whidbey Approach for a few minutes of flight following and possibly
clipping their Class C, and the controller annonced radar contact, and then
issued a squawk. I hadn't given my position (I wasn't too sure where I was
anyway :-) ). He apparently didn't find it necessary to talk to me after I
popped up with the discrete code.

I was probably the only VFR target in his entire airspace, so there was no
ambiguity. Still, question for the controllers, is it standard procedure to
announce radar contact to an untagged target?

-- David Brooks

In article et, "Steven P.
McNicoll" writes:

It'll work fine until the day an aircraft calls that isn't being painted and
there's one that is being painted but hasn't called. There's a reason it
isn't proper radar identification.


It is my memory that about 30 years ago a number (like 25) people were drowned
in Lake Erie by this type mistake. The photo plane was in the right position
over land and the jump plane was over the lake (above cloud cover). Radar
advisory confused the two and told the jump plane he was in position. Don't
know, didn't they have transponders then?

Chuck

"Roy Smith" wrote in message =
...
In article ,
(PaulaJay1) wrote:
=20
=20
It is my memory that about 30 years ago a number (like 25) people =
were drowned
in Lake Erie by this type mistake. The photo plane was in the right =
position
over land and the jump plane was over the lake (above cloud cover). =
Radar
advisory confused the two and told the jump plane he was in =
position. Don't
know, didn't they have transponders then?
=20
Chuck
=20
Are you trying to tell me that a jump plane released jumpers out of=20
sight of land and with no navigation other than a radar controller=20
telling them where they were???
=20
Also, 105.17 says, "No person may conduct a parachute operation [...]=20
(a) Into or through a cloud". Was that regulation (or something=20
similar) not in effect at that time?

I'm fairly sure that was one of several incidents which triggered that =
regulation.
---JRC---

In article ,
(PaulaJay1) wrote:

In article et, "Steven P.
McNicoll" writes:

It'll work fine until the day an aircraft calls that isn't being painted and
there's one that is being painted but hasn't called. There's a reason it
isn't proper radar identification.


It is my memory that about 30 years ago a number (like 25) people were drowned
in Lake Erie by this type mistake. The photo plane was in the right position
over land and the jump plane was over the lake (above cloud cover). Radar
advisory confused the two and told the jump plane he was in position. Don't
know, didn't they have transponders then?

Chuck

Are you trying to tell me that a jump plane released jumpers out of
sight of land and with no navigation other than a radar controller
telling them where they were???

Also, 105.17*says, "No person may conduct a parachute operation [...]
(a) Into or through a cloud". Was that regulation (or something
similar) not in effect at that time?

"PaulaJay1" wrote in message
...

It is my memory that about 30 years ago a number (like 25) people
were drowned in Lake Erie by this type mistake. The photo plane
was in the right position over land and the jump plane was over the
lake (above cloud cover). Radar advisory confused the two and
told the jump plane he was in position. Don't know, didn't they
have transponders then?


They existed then, but they were less common.

It's no surprise he knows where you are. In the UK the emergency frequency
controllers know your position by triangulation of the radio signal. Last
time I tested it, they gave me my position within four seconds after I
called them. This was without me giving any indication of my location.

Most serious radio facilities have this facility here, and I am sure they
had it also at Whidby, it's a busy bit of airspace.

John

"David Brooks" wrote in message
...
"Brad Z" wrote in message
news:%Su7c.56442$_w.905441@attbi_s53...
I've gotten that as well, usually when I've provided a specific location
and
altitude during quiet periods were there is no ambiguity. Usually
they'll
say "radar contact, standby for squawk code" while they enter me into
the
system for a flight following.

The fact that you didn't provide a position at all is interesting, but
perhaps there was no other VFR traffic in his sector. Were you flying
at
4am or something? If its a rental, maybe he recognized the "N" number
to
be
associated with a particular departure airport. Or maybe he's
psychic.get
in

Whidbey Appoach airspace is comparatively small, and I wasn't kidding that
I
was almost certainly the only VFR target around, although it was 8pm on a
clear Friday. Nobody but me and an IFR practice were talking to him
anyway.
It's a rental so you're right, he could have known where I was heading
from.
50% of the time it's a trainee behind the mike, so I may have jumped to an
unfair conclusion...


"David Brooks" wrote in message
...
I learned something Friday night while getting in some night solo
time.
I
called Whidbey Approach for a few minutes of flight following and
possibly
clipping their Class C, and the controller annonced radar contact, and
then
issued a squawk. I hadn't given my position (I wasn't too sure where I
was
anyway :-) ). He apparently didn't find it necessary to talk to me
after
I
popped up with the discrete code.

I was probably the only VFR target in his entire airspace, so there
was
no
ambiguity. Still, question for the controllers, is it standard
procedure
to
announce radar contact to an untagged target?

-- David Brooks

I'm not a controller, so I can't speak intelligently on standard
procedure involving radar contact. I do however fly frequently at
night in and around Class B PIT airspace. I always use flight
following at night and can not recall any instance when I was "radar
contact" without first being assigned a code.

Rick

On Sun, 21 Mar 2004 20:56:36 -0800, "David Brooks"
wrote:

I learned something Friday night while getting in some night solo time. I
called Whidbey Approach for a few minutes of flight following and possibly
clipping their Class C, and the controller annonced radar contact, and then
issued a squawk. I hadn't given my position (I wasn't too sure where I was
anyway :-) ). He apparently didn't find it necessary to talk to me after I
popped up with the discrete code.

I was probably the only VFR target in his entire airspace, so there was no
ambiguity. Still, question for the controllers, is it standard procedure to
announce radar contact to an untagged target?

-- David Brooks




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Next time you call up give your position relative to a published VFR
reporting point, one of them little purple flags on the sectional.
Those points are also on the radar scope.



Rick McPherson wrote:
I'm not a controller, so I can't speak intelligently on standard
procedure involving radar contact. I do however fly frequently at
night in and around Class B PIT airspace. I always use flight
following at night and can not recall any instance when I was "radar
contact" without first being assigned a code.

KP wrote:



DF is hasn't been used in US ATC facilities for probably 30-40 years. It
may have hung around a little longer in FSSs.


The AFSS's here and in North Dakota still have DF capability.

Roy Smith wrote
Are you trying to tell me that a jump plane released jumpers out of
sight of land and with no navigation other than a radar controller
telling them where they were???

Yes, that is exactly what happened. That particular incident is quite
famous in the history of skydiving. In fact, back when I instructed,
that was the incident that we used to underscore the importance of not
exiting the airplane if you can't see the ground. The sport has since
changed, and exiting without seeing the ground is once again
relatively common (if not generally legal) - but now it's done with
GPS guidance. Eventually some pilot will incorrectly program or
interpret the GPS and this will happen again.

Also, 105.17*says, "No person may conduct a parachute operation [...]
(a) Into or through a cloud". Was that regulation (or something
similar) not in effect at that time?

That regulation is quite commonly broken even today, though this may
have been prior to the existence of Part 105.

Michael