Is there a nose hook modification for a standard cirrus

William,

Tow with a CG hook is no big deal. I haven’t seen your glider, but if you have a tail skid there is an easy way to replace it with a wheel.

http://fbw-flugzeugbau.de/parts-for-...language=enand

I have a wheel from these guys on my 19 and it’s excellent. We can talk more about the wheel and towing with a CG hook the next time we are both at the field. Its nothing to worry about.

John

It seems everyone concerned with CG hooks has some horror story about
gliders losing control.Â* I'll go out on a limb and lay that one squarely
in the lap of the pilot.Â* Sure, there aren't the self-righting forces
inherent in having the point of force far ahead of the CG, but a
competent pilot should be capable of correcting displacements from the
desired track or pulling the release.Â* If one's decision on purchasing a
glider is based upon whether or not the glider has a nose hook, I would
question the training or ability of the pilot.

On 10/5/2017 6:30 PM, son_of_flubber wrote:
Is there an advantage to using a nose hook when aerotowing through rotor? A year or so ago, I ran the wing for a very_accomplished_glider_pilot in an LS-4 w/c.g.hook who the tow pilot said, went vertical UPish in rotor. The towplane went vertical DOWNish and broke the rope. Both came back to the airport.

Is a C.G. hook better in rotor?

--
Dan, 5J

Hi,

I have a Nimbus 2B that is certified with a nose hook installation. I can look through my records for the 337 if you would like.

Aaron Thomson
N71TT Nimbus 2B

On Friday, October 6, 2017 at 9:39:49 AM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
It seems everyone concerned with CG hooks has some horror story about
gliders losing control.Â* I'll go out on a limb and lay that one squarely
in the lap of the pilot.Â* Sure, there aren't the self-righting forces
inherent in having the point of force far ahead of the CG, but a
competent pilot should be capable of correcting displacements from the
desired track or pulling the release.Â* If one's decision on purchasing a
glider is based upon whether or not the glider has a nose hook, I would
question the training or ability of the pilot.


--
Dan, 5J

It can happen pretty fast - no matter how quick you are on the release. Particularly with a ballasted wing, a tip skid instead of a wheel and if you are more than 100' down the runway when it happens and have a head of steam.

I have no idea how much a nose hook might help. You can end up off the runway without generating much of a difference in path angle. My advice is to brief any wing runner you haven't used before - they have a lot of influence over the ultimate outcome.

Andy Blackburn
9B

In general the cg hook is not an issue on S-H gliders if the glider is correctly set-up. The important things that need to be checked and done:
1. Replace a tail skid with a tail wheel.
2. Make sure the tail wheel is rubber and not hard plastic like some of the early models.
3. The tail wheel needs to be aligned with the glider so that it tracks straight. This can be tested by holding the wings level and pushing the glider on a flat surface for several hundred feet. No deviation should be found..

If all of the above have been done the glider should track straight on normal take-off. You can also hold back on the stick during the initial few seconds of roll to help hold a straight line in cross-winds until more rudder athority is gained and the tail is raised.

Of the 5 pure sailplanes I've owned, only one had a nose hook and, in
thousands of hours of gliding, I can not recall ever wishing I had a
nose hook on any of the others.Â* Nor did I ever think of how great a
nose hook is except when ground launching.Â* Statements like "no matter
how quick you are" are not useful and only serve to demonize something
that has been used successfully since the earliest times in gliding.

No matter how quick you are someone can still pull out in front of you
on the road such that you can not avoid an accident.Â* Does that make you
not drive?Â* Of course not.Â* You rely on your abilities and observation
of the world around to anticipate and avoid, to the extent possible,
such happenings and to react to those that do.Â* The same is true in
gliding.Â* I do not object to nose hooks only to the notion that they are
"safer" than the alternative.Â* And I've seen plenty of hose hook
equipped gliders take a trip into the rough.

On 10/11/2017 8:48 PM, Andy Blackburn wrote:
On Friday, October 6, 2017 at 9:39:49 AM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
It seems everyone concerned with CG hooks has some horror story about
gliders losing control.Â* I'll go out on a limb and lay that one squarely
in the lap of the pilot.Â* Sure, there aren't the self-righting forces
inherent in having the point of force far ahead of the CG, but a
competent pilot should be capable of correcting displacements from the
desired track or pulling the release.Â* If one's decision on purchasing a
glider is based upon whether or not the glider has a nose hook, I would
question the training or ability of the pilot.


--
Dan, 5J
It can happen pretty fast - no matter how quick you are on the release. Particularly with a ballasted wing, a tip skid instead of a wheel and if you are more than 100' down the runway when it happens and have a head of steam.

I have no idea how much a nose hook might help. You can end up off the runway without generating much of a difference in path angle. My advice is to brief any wing runner you haven't used before - they have a lot of influence over the ultimate outcome.

Andy Blackburn
9B

--
Dan, 5J

Maybe some might think differently about the wisdom of fitting nose books to all gliders (where possible) if they had lost a colleague to a kiting belly hook equipped glider he was towing.

When a tow is going normally it makes little difference where the hook is but when the glider has begun to kite it makes a big difference.

On Saturday, October 14, 2017 at 11:23:33 AM UTC-7, wrote:
Maybe some might think differently about the wisdom of fitting nose books to all gliders (where possible) if they had lost a colleague to a kiting belly hook equipped glider he was towing.

When a tow is going normally it makes little difference where the hook is but when the glider has begun to kite it makes a big difference.

That is an excellent point. It can also make a difference in marginal take-off conditions, crosswind, narrow strips, long grass, stuff you might find on an aero retrieve, etc. And low time/new pilots especially may not have the judgement to not try that, especially if they see other gliders towing from there.

Can you aero tow a glider easily with a CG hook? Sure you can. Are there benefit to having a nose hook? Sure there are. Should you install one... uh depends (Clubs and low-time pilots I would hope err on the side of having nose tow hooks).

On Saturday, October 14, 2017 at 12:47:47 PM UTC-6, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Saturday, October 14, 2017 at 11:23:33 AM UTC-7, wrote:
Maybe some might think differently about the wisdom of fitting nose books to all gliders (where possible) if they had lost a colleague to a kiting belly hook equipped glider he was towing.

When a tow is going normally it makes little difference where the hook is but when the glider has begun to kite it makes a big difference.

That is an excellent point. It can also make a difference in marginal take-off conditions, crosswind, narrow strips, long grass, stuff you might find on an aero retrieve, etc. And low time/new pilots especially may not have the judgement to not try that, especially if they see other gliders towing from there.

Can you aero tow a glider easily with a CG hook? Sure you can. Are there benefit to having a nose hook? Sure there are. Should you install one... uh depends (Clubs and low-time pilots I would hope err on the side of having nose tow hooks).

In a club ship, if there is a nose-hook option, installation should be done.. We have an LS-4b that came with only a CG hoot. It took a while, but eventually a member took a launch excursion and nearly collided with some private gliders on the launch point tie-downs. A factory kit was ordered and installed.

I mentioned previously that many years ago at least three Colorado Std Cirrus owners had 'bras' that slipped over the nose and were retained by the CG hook and were towed from the front of the 'bra'. Upon release, rope and 'bra' followed the tow plane home. At the time, they probably didn't have a retrofit option.

Frank Whiteley

My ASW-24 had a CG hook only, and more than once I had to release early on tow, usually a combination involving one or more of the following factors, of bad wing run, water ballast and X-wind. I have never had to release on tow for any nose hook equipped 18 meter birds ( have owned two) or the Nimbus 4 even at all up max weight.