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#21
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[repost as my original never appeared - apologies if it does]
Ray Andraka ) wrote: Until the autopilot goes TU on you... If it is a conventional A/P, it may not work if you lose instrument vacuum or your AI, for example. Real bad time to be out of practice hand-flying without and autopilot to back you up. What general aviation AP uses the AI (attitude indicator)? I have experience with the Bendix/King KAP-140 and the S-TEC 60-2 and neither rely on the AI for input. Are there some that do? If the aircraft loses suction, the wing leveler feature of the above APs, which use the electric turn coordinator, would probably make partial panel flying safer. -- Peter R. ----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- |
#22
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I believe the Piper and century autopilots use the AI. The fact that the STEC uses
the turn coordinator was a large factor in selecting that A/P (Stec-20) for my airplane. One of the major motivations for adding the AP was the ability to boost my safety in a partial panel situation, and yes, I do find it very nice for those map juggling episodes. I don't have a panel mount GPS, only a handheld Pilot-III. Without the A/P setting that GPS is set what you need to now, go back and add the rest in little steps later. With the autopilot, resetting the GPS is made a lot easier. Still, I hand fly much more than most pilots I know who have autopilots. I want to make sure that I am proficient with handflying when I need it. The big thing the auto pilot gives me is a back-up to let me turn the flying over to someone (thing) else while I take care of other things when needed. Regarding 2 axis, my aircraft is very stable in the pitch axis. Setting the trim properly holds my altitude very well. Similarly, I can get a constant rate descent by simply reducing power (4 inches gets me a 500 FPM descent). Sure, I'd like to have a 2 axis AP, but there are other things competing for my cash that are a higher priority. "Peter R." wrote: [ What general aviation AP uses the AI (attitude indicator)? I have experience with the Bendix/King KAP-140 and the S-TEC 60-2 and neither rely on the AI for input. Are there some that do? If the aircraft loses suction, the wing leveler feature of the above APs, which use the electric turn coordinator, would probably make partial panel flying safer. -- Peter R. ----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- -- --Ray Andraka, P.E. President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc. 401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950 http://www.andraka.com "They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, 1759 |
#23
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My Century 31 uses the AI. It's not very common though.
On the general topic... an AP is jolly handy when flying ANY cross country. It's kind of hard work to fly a long xc without one. However autopilots are so fickle that you'd better be able to hand fly without worrying about it! My experience (in several aircraft) is that they are down as much as not. Also when the going gets really tough you want to hand fly. If you're not comfortable hand flying on top or in smooth cloud, you're really going to be in trouble when you hit mod-to-sev turbulence in a front and the ap can't handle it. My policy is to use the ap in good conditions on long flights, and to hand fly on training flights. John "Peter R." wrote in message ... [repost as my original never appeared - apologies if it does] Ray Andraka ) wrote: Until the autopilot goes TU on you... If it is a conventional A/P, it may not work if you lose instrument vacuum or your AI, for example. Real bad time to be out of practice hand-flying without and autopilot to back you up. What general aviation AP uses the AI (attitude indicator)? I have experience with the Bendix/King KAP-140 and the S-TEC 60-2 and neither rely on the AI for input. Are there some that do? If the aircraft loses suction, the wing leveler feature of the above APs, which use the electric turn coordinator, would probably make partial panel flying safer. -- Peter R. ----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- |
#24
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Peter R. wrote:
[repost as my original never appeared - apologies if it does] Ray Andraka ) wrote: Until the autopilot goes TU on you... If it is a conventional A/P, it may not work if you lose instrument vacuum or your AI, for example. Real bad time to be out of practice hand-flying without and autopilot to back you up. What general aviation AP uses the AI (attitude indicator)? I have experience with the Bendix/King KAP-140 and the S-TEC 60-2 and neither rely on the AI for input. Are there some that do? Two examples that I am familiar with are Piper Autocontrol III-B (had one in my previous airplane) and Century 21 (have one in my current airplane). There's a "pickoff" on the AI. If either the AI or the suction go south, the autopilot will attempt to follow the dying AI. If the aircraft loses suction, the wing leveler feature of the above APs, which use the electric turn coordinator, would probably make partial panel flying safer. I agree. All-electric is better than having an autopilot that relies on the vacuum instruments. In my airplane, I've added the AeroAdvantage dual-rotor vacuum pump to give myself a little bit of redundancy in the vacuum supply. Doesn't help if the instrument fails, though. Dave Remove SHIRT to reply. |
#25
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Jon Kraus wrote
Just curious as to opinions about flying in IMC without an autopilot? Does an autopilot make flying in the clouds safer or is it just a crutch for the lazy? For myself being new to IFR flying I feel safer knowing that if needed I could turn the autopilot on. Maybe it is a false sense of security... For the first two years I owned my twin, I had no autopilot. I would routinely launch into low IMC, single pilot, fly for hours in IMC, and shoot an approach. It was really not a big deal. Eventually I put the autopilot in. I find that on short trips, I rarely use it. However, on very long trips where I might spend 5-10 hours in the plane, it's great to be able to turn it on and relax, listen to the CD player, and rest for a couple of hours. It's not really a safety item - it's a range extender. I do not use the autopilot in IMC. I get so little of it (only about 15-20 hours a year) that I'm not giving any of it away to the autopilot. I think I've turned the autopilot on in IMC twice in the two years I've had it, for a combined total of maybe 5 minutes. If you get into an unusual attitude, turning the autopilot on may not help much. In my case, it caused a divergent oscillation in pitch that had to be damped out by hand (I do not have altitude hold). In turbulent IMC (which is most IMC on the Gulf Coast) the autopilot provides a rough ride - I prefer to fly myself. I'll be honest - I probably underuse the autopilot. I don't trust it any more than I would trust an instrument pilot who flew fixated on the attitude gyro without ever crosschecking - which is exactly how the autopilot flies. I have seen pilots become autopilot-dependent, and unable to handle the workload of a normal IFR flight without it. That scares me, and I guess that's the reason I don't normally turn the A/P on in IMC. I've developed my skills to a fine edge; I don't want to dull it. Michael |
#26
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Fatigue is a sneaky killer, because you do not realize how severely your
mental processes and physical reactions have been affected. I'll take safety over macho any day in the week. Bob "SFM" wrote in message ... Last trip through the clouds was like being in a ping pong ball, I was going through ORD airspace and spent a little under an hour flying by hand even though I had the autopilot. I just wanted to get some good practice in with no vis. I shot a VOR A approach into my home airfield and broke out about 1400 AGL landed fine put the airplane away and then was so tired I had my spouse drive home where I then took a 2 hour nap. It was real work, next time autopilot! Scott -- ------------------------------------------------------------------ Scott F. Migaldi, K9PO MI-150972 PP-ASEL-IA Are you a PADI Instructor or DM? Then join the PADI Instructor Yahoo Group at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PADI-Instructors/join ----------------------------------- Catch the wave! www.hamwave.com **"A long time ago being crazy meant something, nowadays everyone is crazy" -- Charles Manson** ------------------------------------- "Bob Gardner" wrote in message news:A02cc.183588$_w.1847277@attbi_s53... The autopilot can fly the airplane more smoothly than I can, so if I have one, I use it. Hand-flying in the clouds for more than 30 minutes or so takes a lot out of me, so if I am going to be solid for any length of time I want an autopilot. Bob Gardner "Jon Kraus" wrote in message ... Just curious as to opinions about flying in IMC without an autopilot? Does an autopilot make flying in the clouds safer or is it just a crutch for the lazy? For myself being new to IFR flying I feel safer knowing that if needed I could turn the autopilot on. Maybe it is a false sense of security... Jon Kraus PP-ASEL Student-IA |
#27
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If you turn the autopilot on while in an unusual attitude, it will not
return you to upright flight. All autopilots know is what you tell them, so you do not turn one on until the airplane is trimmed to hold altitude in level flight. Bob Gardner "O. Sami Saydjari" wrote in message ... Well, it would seem an interesting scientific question as to whether the introduction of autopilot indeed led to fewer IMC accidents. It seems that one could appeal to the accident data history and find out. I feel safer knowing that I have an autopilot, but that does not mean that I am. For example, I doubt that if I got the plane into a really unusual attitude (flying manually), that I could just flip my autopilot on and everything would be OK. On the other hand, one might successfully argue that if I habitually use my autopilot, the chances of getting into an unusal attitude are lower. In short, I do not think that this question can be answered by appeal to intuition; facts based on data would be good here. -Sami Tom Sixkiller wrote: "vincent p. norris" wrote in message ... Just curious as to opinions about flying in IMC without an autopilot? An autopilot is nice; but for years, in military and private a/c, we didnt have them, and we got along just fine. And disorientation in IMC lead to a lot of people not "getting along fine", but rather splattering themselves over the landscape. |
#28
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It is surprising/frightening how many pilots do not know where their
autopilot gets its roll input. I have read of cases where a pilot went to partial-panel because the vacuum pump failed, while their electric turn coordinator and HSI continued to work just fine. Bob Gardner "Peter R." wrote in message ... [repost as my original never appeared - apologies if it does] Ray Andraka ) wrote: Until the autopilot goes TU on you... If it is a conventional A/P, it may not work if you lose instrument vacuum or your AI, for example. Real bad time to be out of practice hand-flying without and autopilot to back you up. What general aviation AP uses the AI (attitude indicator)? I have experience with the Bendix/King KAP-140 and the S-TEC 60-2 and neither rely on the AI for input. Are there some that do? If the aircraft loses suction, the wing leveler feature of the above APs, which use the electric turn coordinator, would probably make partial panel flying safer. -- Peter R. ----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- |
#29
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In following this thread, I can't agree with the idea that prudent use of an
Autopilot can contribute to loss of proficency. I use the AP purhaps 80% of the time - flying level on a heading. There's not much proficency to gain or lose during this time. I would think that we all hand fly the takeoff and landing. Here's where the practice is useful and needed. Chuck |
#30
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"Thomas Borchert" wrote in message ... Vincent, An autopilot is nice; but for years, in military and private a/c, we didnt have them, and we got along just fine. There are reasons the accident rates have been on the decline for decades. Autopilots might be one. IMO In the US there have been three major causes of reduction in deaths as I would present the statistics: 1) Automation of airliners saves about 5000 lives in US common carriers each year extrapolating pre-1972 deaths hour traveled to the zeros poping up today. 2) EAA was alowed to assume some ACO regulatory authority in the construction of homebuilts, which led to a reduction of about 2000 lives per year. 3) AOPA has become clear in promoting the concept that small GA is not safer than driving a car. This notion has led to more automation and awareness in small GA, through operators seeking safer flight to save about 400 lives a year. |
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