Instrument Check Ride - What navigation equipment can I use ?

Nathan Young wrote in
:

I think this is pretty much up to the examiner.

On my checkride, I was allowed the full use of the radio panel the
entire flight. In my case, Garmin 295, KX155 + GS, KX170 + LOC, ADF,
LORAN, DME.

Pleasantly surprised you were allowed to use the Garmin 295 since it's not
certified for IFR flight. To me, it's a great supplement for situational
awareness, which I'd suspect your examiner felt the same way for he / she
to allow you to use it?

I didn't have an ADF in my plane, just ILS and DME, so all I could do at
the time was ILS, LOC and VOR approaches.

In my check ride, I was asked to do a VOR, ILS and a back course localizer
approach. My partial panel was a VOR approach in which my DE allowed
(encouraged) the use of my VFR Garmin for assistance in the ground track.

Allen

Haha, same here Allen, I chose that plane to train in for just that
reason. It had a loran in it and a gps (both VFR) which promptly failed
as soon as the avionics master was turned on. Funny how those things
happen on a checkride. We got rid of the Loran when it died and
replaced it with a DME which was a requirement for the one precision
approach into our airport. The VFR GPS keeps plugging away nicely and
is great for situational awareness. It's also handy to keep your next
fix tuned in so that while you are tuning the real nav devices you have
a decent idea of which way you ought to be flying when the needle centers.

Robert

A Lieberma wrote:
Nathan Young wrote in
:


I think this is pretty much up to the examiner.

On my checkride, I was allowed the full use of the radio panel the
entire flight. In my case, Garmin 295, KX155 + GS, KX170 + LOC, ADF,
LORAN, DME.


Pleasantly surprised you were allowed to use the Garmin 295 since it's not
certified for IFR flight. To me, it's a great supplement for situational
awareness, which I'd suspect your examiner felt the same way for he / she
to allow you to use it?

I didn't have an ADF in my plane, just ILS and DME, so all I could do at
the time was ILS, LOC and VOR approaches.

In my check ride, I was asked to do a VOR, ILS and a back course localizer
approach. My partial panel was a VOR approach in which my DE allowed
(encouraged) the use of my VFR Garmin for assistance in the ground track.

Allen

A Lieberma wrote:
Nathan Young wrote in
:

I think this is pretty much up to the examiner.

On my checkride, I was allowed the full use of the radio panel the
entire flight. In my case, Garmin 295, KX155 + GS, KX170 + LOC, ADF,
LORAN, DME.

Pleasantly surprised you were allowed to use the Garmin 295 since it's not
certified for IFR flight. To me, it's a great supplement for situational
awareness, which I'd suspect your examiner felt the same way for he / she
to allow you to use it?

Many examiners in my area will allow portable GPS as a supplement, even
during partial panel. One DE has been known to unplug it during a
simulated electrical failure, if the applicant didn't install fresh
batteries? Oh well! If the batteries are good, it's fair game. In
fact, many allow them during all but the cross country phase of a PP
checkride.

At a safety seminar, one DE explained it to me as "all available
information."

On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 12:57:17 GMT, "Roy N5804F"
wrote:

I've seen a lot of answers on here, but the standard approach (no pun
intended) is to *expect* and be prepared to use any and all
instruments installed on the airplane. That includes autopilot. GPS,
LORAN, what ever and be able to demonstrate how to program it in
flight. You probably won't have to, but if you don't know how that
will probably be what you get quizzed on and have to use. They are
very good at finding out how well you know your equipment.

Yes, I had to demonstrate the use of the autopilot which couples to
the DG, RNAV, and VOR receivers.

With a fully ticked out bird you probably won't have to use all of
that equipment, but you may or may not be questioned on it. However
you probably won't know ahead of time which. Certainly those that are
used for your primary navigation are likely to be covered in depth so
I'd want to be very familiar with that new stack. You have an NDB.
Most likely you will get to use it. Loran? It's just a back up. That
way *maybe* you only get to explain how you use it.

On my flight the examiner asked me how the RNAV "worked" so I started
out with the technical explanation as to how it "worked". After about
a minute he stopped me and said, "I meant, how do you use it". Big
difference:-)).
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Thanks Roger for bringing this thread back on track to the original
question.
I appreciate all the input, however diverse :-)

I consider myself to be reasonably sharp with the full use and limitations
of avionics now fitted.

In conclusion, I have to ensure that I am truly ready and competent to use
"all" or "any" or "any part of" or "almost none" of the installed equipment
during my instrument checkride.
The thread has also caused a timely reminder to change my pre-flight check
list to include all the various coupled modes of the Century IIB AP
operation and the new roll steering unit. Up to now I only check wing
leveling and DG bug following on the ground.

Thanks to all.

--
Roy
Piper Archer N5804F


"Roger" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 12:57:17 GMT, "Roy N5804F"
wrote:

I've seen a lot of answers on here, but the standard approach (no pun
intended) is to *expect* and be prepared to use any and all
instruments installed on the airplane. That includes autopilot. GPS,
LORAN, what ever and be able to demonstrate how to program it in
flight. You probably won't have to, but if you don't know how that
will probably be what you get quizzed on and have to use. They are
very good at finding out how well you know your equipment.

Yes, I had to demonstrate the use of the autopilot which couples to
the DG, RNAV, and VOR receivers.

With a fully ticked out bird you probably won't have to use all of
that equipment, but you may or may not be questioned on it. However
you probably won't know ahead of time which. Certainly those that are
used for your primary navigation are likely to be covered in depth so
I'd want to be very familiar with that new stack. You have an NDB.
Most likely you will get to use it. Loran? It's just a back up. That
way *maybe* you only get to explain how you use it.

On my flight the examiner asked me how the RNAV "worked" so I started
out with the technical explanation as to how it "worked". After about
a minute he stopped me and said, "I meant, how do you use it". Big
difference:-)).
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Roger,

I forgot to mention, that like yourself I am licensed radio amateur
[W8/G4DYR] and have the in-depth technical understanding of the avionics
fitted in the Archer.
If asked a similar question by the DE, I too would probably head off down
the full electronic technical path to describe how it worked :-)

Roy

"Roger" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 12:57:17 GMT, "Roy N5804F"
wrote:

I've seen a lot of answers on here, but the standard approach (no pun
intended) is to *expect* and be prepared to use any and all
instruments installed on the airplane. That includes autopilot. GPS,
LORAN, what ever and be able to demonstrate how to program it in
flight. You probably won't have to, but if you don't know how that
will probably be what you get quizzed on and have to use. They are
very good at finding out how well you know your equipment.

Yes, I had to demonstrate the use of the autopilot which couples to
the DG, RNAV, and VOR receivers.

With a fully ticked out bird you probably won't have to use all of
that equipment, but you may or may not be questioned on it. However
you probably won't know ahead of time which. Certainly those that are
used for your primary navigation are likely to be covered in depth so
I'd want to be very familiar with that new stack. You have an NDB.
Most likely you will get to use it. Loran? It's just a back up. That
way *maybe* you only get to explain how you use it.

On my flight the examiner asked me how the RNAV "worked" so I started
out with the technical explanation as to how it "worked". After about
a minute he stopped me and said, "I meant, how do you use it". Big
difference:-)).
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Roy N5804F wrote:

Roger,

I forgot to mention, that like yourself I am licensed radio amateur
[W8/G4DYR] and have the in-depth technical understanding of the avionics
fitted in the Archer.
If asked a similar question by the DE, I too would probably head off down
the full electronic technical path to describe how it worked :-)

Is that called "trick the man who holds your family jewels in his hands"
before the flight portion of the check ride?

On Sat, 02 Dec 2006 18:12:38 -0800, Sam Spade
wrote:

Roy N5804F wrote:

Roger,

I forgot to mention, that like yourself I am licensed radio amateur
[W8/G4DYR] and have the in-depth technical understanding of the avionics
fitted in the Archer.
If asked a similar question by the DE, I too would probably head off down
the full electronic technical path to describe how it worked :-)

Is that called "trick the man who holds your family jewels in his hands"
before the flight portion of the check ride?

Not at all. If you ask an engineer or some one familiar with how
something works you are indeed likely for them to answer in the same
manner as they always do when asked that question. They give the
technical answer, after all he didn't ask me how I used the thing, he
asked how it worked. I thought that was a bit deep for the instrument
check ride, but I would not have though of answering the question in
any other manner.

My degree is in computer science, one of my minors is in math, I have
26 years working in instrumentation, and my hobbies are almost all
technical. In the normal course of events it would never occur to me
to tell some one how I use a piece of equipment when they ask how it
works.:-))



Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Roger wrote:
after all he didn't ask me how I used the thing, he
asked how it worked.

You should have responded, "Very nicely". :-)