Another SR22

Thomas Borchert schrieb:

Oh, I'm sure there is. It's just that the chute by itself doesn't make
the plane safer, as the quoted marketing blurb alluded.

Actually, it does. At least, I tend to believe so, after having lost
three friends in midairs (two events).

Stefan

"Thomas Borchert" wrote in message
...
Dave,

The size of the Cirrus fleet isn't even a flea on an elephant compared to
the Cessna fleet.


You're comparing apples and oranges. Try again with new Cessnas (since
1996
or whenever they started building their antiques again) and Cirruses.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

It's not me comparing apples to oranges it's those comparing Cessna
accidents to Cirrus accidents forgetting the Cessna fleet is near infinite
compared to the Cirrus fleet.

Stefan,

At least, I tend to believe so, after having lost
three friends in midairs (two events).


Actually, that's the one situation the chute hasn't proven itself in
yet. Nobody knows if it will even work after your average mid-air. But
it's a hope, for sure. Still requires the pilot to pull, too.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 16:56:50 -0500, "Gig 601XL Builder"
wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net wrote in :


Does the POH mention when it may be appropriate to deploy the 'chute?
I thought it was for use in spin recovery.


From the manual

[excerpt deleted]

Thank you.

What does the POH say about CAPS deployment for spin recovery?


You know Larry the URL for the manual was in the upstream post but since I
downloaded the whole book.

Spins

The SR22 is not approved for spins, and has not been tested or

certified for spin recovery characteristics. The only approved and

demonstrated method of spin recovery is activation of the Cirrus

Airframe Parachute System (See CAPS Deployment, this section).

Because of this, if the aircraft "departs controlled flight," the CAPS

must be deployed.

While the stall characteristics of the SR22 make accidental entry into a

spin extremely unlikely, it is possible. Spin entry can be avoided by

using good airmanship: coordinated use of controls in turns, proper

airspeed control following the recommendations of this Handbook, and

never abusing the flight controls with accelerated inputs when close to

the stall (see Stalls, Section 4).

If, at the stall, the controls are misapplied and abused accelerated

inputs are made to the elevator, rudder and/or ailerons, an abrupt wing

drop may be felt and a spiral or spin may be entered. In some cases it

may be difficult to determine if the aircraft has entered a spiral or the

beginning of a spin.

.. WARNING .

In all cases, if the aircraft enters an unusual attitude from

which recovery is not expected before ground impact,

immediate deployment of the CAPS is required.

The minimum demonstrated altitude loss for a CAPS

deployment from a one-turn spin is 920 feet. Activation at

higher altitudes provides enhanced safety margins for

parachute recoveries. Do not waste time and altitude trying to

recover from a spiral/spin before activating CAPS.

Inadvertent Spin Entry

1.
CAPS.............................................. ...................................
Activate

On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 08:36:26 -0500, "Gig 601XL Builder"
wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net wrote in :


"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 16:56:50 -0500, "Gig 601XL Builder"
wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net wrote in :


Does the POH mention when it may be appropriate to deploy the 'chute?
I thought it was for use in spin recovery.


From the manual

[excerpt deleted]

Thank you.

What does the POH say about CAPS deployment for spin recovery?


You know Larry the URL for the manual was in the upstream post but since I
downloaded the whole book.

Thank you for the information.

Spins

The SR22 is not approved for spins, and has not been tested or

certified for spin recovery characteristics. The only approved and

demonstrated method of spin recovery is activation of the Cirrus

Airframe Parachute System (See CAPS Deployment, this section).

Because of this, if the aircraft "departs controlled flight," the CAPS

must be deployed.

While the stall characteristics of the SR22 make accidental entry into a

spin extremely unlikely, it is possible. Spin entry can be avoided by

using good airmanship: coordinated use of controls in turns, proper

airspeed control following the recommendations of this Handbook, and

never abusing the flight controls with accelerated inputs when close to

the stall (see Stalls, Section 4).

If, at the stall, the controls are misapplied and abused accelerated

inputs are made to the elevator, rudder and/or ailerons, an abrupt wing

drop may be felt and a spiral or spin may be entered. In some cases it

may be difficult to determine if the aircraft has entered a spiral or the

beginning of a spin.

. WARNING .

In all cases, if the aircraft enters an unusual attitude from

which recovery is not expected before ground impact,

immediate deployment of the CAPS is required.

The minimum demonstrated altitude loss for a CAPS

deployment from a one-turn spin is 920 feet. Activation at

higher altitudes provides enhanced safety margins for

parachute recoveries. Do not waste time and altitude trying to

recover from a spiral/spin before activating CAPS.

Inadvertent Spin Entry


That seems to confirm, that the CAPS was required to the meet spin
recovery requirements for FAA certification of the SR22.

But if the aircraft is below 1,000', the CAPS system is probably not
an option.

Thank you again for providing the SR22 POH quotes.

Larry,

But if the aircraft is below 1,000', the CAPS system is probably not
an option.


IF you are in a fully developed spin (1 full turn, as certification
requires and the handbook says), traditional spin recovery isn't an
option either at 1000 feet. There is a limit to altitude loss during
recovery to meet certification. The chute obviously qualifies.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Dave Stadt wrote:

It's not me comparing apples to oranges it's those comparing Cessna
accidents to Cirrus accidents forgetting the Cessna fleet is near infinite
compared to the Cirrus fleet.

No argument there, it really is apples & oranges. My point in making
the Piper and Cessna comparison is that the Cirruses (Cirri?) aren't
crashing any more often than other makes, it just seems that way
because of heightened interested in the type, (especially after the NYC
crash) thereby an accident involving a Cirrus stands out more. Maybe
it's a perception thing? With Cirrus cranking out so many planes now,
and surpassing Cessna in piston single sales/production, I'd expect
we'll hear of more accidents simply due to the rapidly expanding fleet.
I don't think it's an indictment of the safety of Cirrus aircraft,
though.

"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net wrote in message
...
While that has happened there have also been cases where non-pilots were
talked down when the exact same thing happened to the pilot. The
difference being that the plane was flyable again when landed without a
chute.

Airsafety had a report earlier this year of a non-pilot landing a Twin
Commander but the link is broken.

http://www.airsafety.com/reports/ROW060215A.pdf


http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?e...10X00588&key=1

On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 16:06:45 +0200, Thomas Borchert
wrote in
:

Larry,

But if the aircraft is below 1,000', the CAPS system is probably not
an option.


IF you are in a fully developed spin (1 full turn, as certification
requires and the handbook says), traditional spin recovery isn't an
option either at 1000 feet. There is a limit to altitude loss during
recovery to meet certification. The chute obviously qualifies.

Obviously.

However, if you have, for example, an engine failure at 400' on
departure, the CAPS is not an option.

My point is, that CAPS is not an option at the times it's needed most:
below 920'. So to characterize the SR22 CAPS as a safety enhancement
(for other than spin recovery, and possibly a MAC, structural failure,
loss of control, and landing in inhospitable terrain, *if* they occur
above 920') is inappropriate. (And CAPS use for recovery in the event
of pilot incapacitation is a judgment call specific to the incident.)

Personally, I would characterize the SR22 CAPS solely as a
certification requirement for spin recovery, with limited utility in a
few other emergency situations, and certainly not as a "panic-button"
capable of rescuing the flight from all perils.

Larry,

However, if you have, for example, an engine failure at 400' on
departure, the CAPS is not an option.

How do you arrive at that conclusion?

My point is, that CAPS is not an option at the times it's needed most:
below 920'.

That's not what your own quote says. It says it is not an option if you
arrive at less than 920 feet after one full turn in a spin.

So to characterize the SR22 CAPS as a safety enhancement
(for other than spin recovery, and possibly a MAC, structural failure,
loss of control, and landing in inhospitable terrain, *if* they occur
above 920') is inappropriate.

Well, the people saved by it in different circumstances would probably
beg to differ.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)