Mode S transponder display to ATC?

On Sep 8, 9:54*pm, "Mike" wrote:
"Peter" wrote in message

...



"Mike" wrote

Some of the ModeS features will never be implemented and the ModeS
Extended
Squitter will mainly be used by the airlines. *For GA, I don't think
you're
going to see much in the way of new ModeS features as the ADS-B UATs will
be
the preferred new technology path for data link.

Indeed. You won't get Mode S on the UAT link. Two completely different
schemes.

As far as providing other services (ok, "features" , I believe one
of the things they are looking at, is taking ADS-B In to drive a TCAS
display (ADS-B is *not* currently certified for collision avoidance).

Isn't the USA going to implement ADS-B using the 1090MHz Extended
Squitter - such as can be done with a GTX330?

The capstone project in Alaska implemented it with UATs and I'm pretty sure
that's the way it's currently being implemented on the east coast working
its way west. *

As far as extended squitter goes, I know at one time that was
the plan for the airlines because they had already made a large capital
investment in it. *

Pretty much. Have to be compatible with and continue to support that
big installed base if you want a prayer of it being accepted/adopted.

I'm not really sure what progress has been made on that
front.



AIUI, most of the rest of the world (those bits that are planning
ADS-B) are looking to do it that way.

1090 if you're one of the bigger operators, or perhaps smaller folks
with deep pockets. UAT is lower cost.

1090 only gives you TIS. UAT adds FIS (Weather, NOTAMs).

On 2008-09-09, Jon wrote:
1090 if you're one of the bigger operators, or perhaps smaller folks
with deep pockets. UAT is lower cost.

A GTX330 doesn't exactly imply "deep pockets". Wasn't a UAT estimated to
cost several thousand bucks?
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC

"Jon" wrote in message
...
On Sep 8, 9:54 pm, "Mike" wrote:
"Peter" wrote in message

...



"Mike" wrote

Some of the ModeS features will never be implemented and the ModeS
Extended
Squitter will mainly be used by the airlines. For GA, I don't think
you're
going to see much in the way of new ModeS features as the ADS-B UATs
will
be
the preferred new technology path for data link.

Indeed. You won't get Mode S on the UAT link. Two completely different
schemes.

I'm not really sure what you mean by "get Mode S".


As far as providing other services (ok, "features" , I believe one
of the things they are looking at, is taking ADS-B In to drive a TCAS
display (ADS-B is *not* currently certified for collision avoidance).

You can count on that as TCAS currently has accuracy limitations which is
why the range is quite limited, but this is more of a recent development.
As far as what I mean by "features", I'm talking about everything that ModeS
was originally intended to be capable of doing. You have to remember that
the technology is over 30 years old now. Much of what was originally
conceived will never be implemented.

AIUI, most of the rest of the world (those bits that are planning
ADS-B) are looking to do it that way.

1090 if you're one of the bigger operators, or perhaps smaller folks
with deep pockets. UAT is lower cost.

1090 only gives you TIS. UAT adds FIS (Weather, NOTAMs).

1090 is capable of considerably more than TIS. Some of that capability has
already been realized, but it remains to be seen how much more will. The
airlines already get the products you mentioned through ACARS.

"Jay Maynard" wrote in message
...
On 2008-09-09, Jon wrote:
1090 if you're one of the bigger operators, or perhaps smaller folks
with deep pockets. UAT is lower cost.

A GTX330 doesn't exactly imply "deep pockets". Wasn't a UAT estimated to
cost several thousand bucks?

It's going to run you considerably north of $10K for a full certified
installation and somewhat less if you already have a MFD.

On 2008-09-09, Mike wrote:
"Jay Maynard" wrote in message
...
On 2008-09-09, Jon wrote:
1090 if you're one of the bigger operators, or perhaps smaller folks
with deep pockets. UAT is lower cost.
A GTX330 doesn't exactly imply "deep pockets". Wasn't a UAT estimated to
cost several thousand bucks?
It's going to run you considerably north of $10K for a full certified
installation and somewhat less if you already have a MFD.

Hardly. My airplane already has a GTX330 and a GNS430W. Garmin says that
they'll implement ADS-B on those two boxes; the GTX330 will require a $1200
upgrade, but the PowerPoint I saw was unclear on what the GNS430W would
need.

I doubt that a UAT will be that inexpensive; there's also the minor problem
of needing panel space for it, something that's in short supply in my
airplane.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC

"Jay Maynard" wrote in message
...
On 2008-09-09, Mike wrote:
"Jay Maynard" wrote in message
...
On 2008-09-09, Jon wrote:
1090 if you're one of the bigger operators, or perhaps smaller folks
with deep pockets. UAT is lower cost.
A GTX330 doesn't exactly imply "deep pockets". Wasn't a UAT estimated to
cost several thousand bucks?
It's going to run you considerably north of $10K for a full certified
installation and somewhat less if you already have a MFD.

Hardly. My airplane already has a GTX330 and a GNS430W. Garmin says that
they'll implement ADS-B on those two boxes; the GTX330 will require a
$1200
upgrade, but the PowerPoint I saw was unclear on what the GNS430W would
need.

I was referring to UAT. The GDL 90 costs around $7K, a MFD costs around
$3-4K, and installation adds to the cost.

I doubt that a UAT will be that inexpensive; there's also the minor
problem
of needing panel space for it, something that's in short supply in my
airplane.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC

On Sep 9, 9:45*am, "Mike" wrote:
"Jon" wrote in message

...



On Sep 8, 9:54 pm, "Mike" wrote:
"Peter" wrote in message

.. .

"Mike" wrote

Some of the ModeS features will never be implemented and the ModeS
Extended
Squitter will mainly be used by the airlines. For GA, I don't think
you're
going to see much in the way of new ModeS features as the ADS-B UATs
will
be
the preferred new technology path for data link.

Indeed. You won't get Mode S on the UAT link. Two completely different
schemes.

I'm not really sure what you mean by "get Mode S".

What I meant was the UAT datalink is not equipped to receive (or
transmit) Mode S. But I misread what you wrote, so I guess it doesn't
matter.

1090 only gives you TIS. *UAT adds FIS (Weather, NOTAMs).

1090 is capable of considerably more than TIS. *Some of that capability has
already been realized, but it remains to be seen how much more will. *The
airlines already get the products you mentioned through ACARS.

Are those products received over 1090?

"Jon" wrote in message
...
On Sep 9, 9:45 am, "Mike" wrote:
"Jon" wrote in message

...



On Sep 8, 9:54 pm, "Mike" wrote:
"Peter" wrote in message

.. .

"Mike" wrote

Some of the ModeS features will never be implemented and the ModeS
Extended
Squitter will mainly be used by the airlines. For GA, I don't
think
you're
going to see much in the way of new ModeS features as the ADS-B
UATs
will
be
the preferred new technology path for data link.

Indeed. You won't get Mode S on the UAT link. Two completely different
schemes.

I'm not really sure what you mean by "get Mode S".

What I meant was the UAT datalink is not equipped to receive (or
transmit) Mode S. But I misread what you wrote, so I guess it doesn't
matter.

1090 only gives you TIS. UAT adds FIS (Weather, NOTAMs).

1090 is capable of considerably more than TIS. Some of that capability
has
already been realized, but it remains to be seen how much more will. The
airlines already get the products you mentioned through ACARS.

Are those products received over 1090?

1090 ES doesn't have the bandwidth necessary to do much in the way of large
data transfers, however as far as the big airplanes go, there's really not
much need. ACARS gives them far more and would not go away even if it were
possible to put those products on 1090 ES.

On Sep 10, 12:45*am, "Mike" wrote:
"Jon" wrote in message

...



On Sep 9, 9:45 am, "Mike" wrote:
"Jon" wrote in message

....

On Sep 8, 9:54 pm, "Mike" wrote:
"Peter" wrote in message

.. .

"Mike" wrote

Some of the ModeS features will never be implemented and the ModeS
Extended
Squitter will mainly be used by the airlines. For GA, I don't
think
you're
going to see much in the way of new ModeS features as the ADS-B
UATs
will
be
the preferred new technology path for data link.

Indeed. You won't get Mode S on the UAT link. Two completely different
schemes.

I'm not really sure what you mean by "get Mode S".

What I meant was the UAT datalink is not equipped to receive (or
transmit) Mode S. But I misread what you wrote, so I guess it doesn't
matter.

1090 only gives you TIS. UAT adds FIS (Weather, NOTAMs).

1090 is capable of considerably more than TIS. Some of that capability
has
already been realized, but it remains to be seen how much more will. The
airlines already get the products you mentioned through ACARS.

Are those products received over 1090?

1090 ES doesn't have the bandwidth necessary to do much in the way of large
data transfers, however as far as the big airplanes go, there's really not
much need. *ACARS gives them far more and would not go away even if it were
possible to put those products on 1090 ES.

No doubt. I was mainly commenting on what UAT provides, not about
whether an existing 1090 user could receive those equivalent products
with a 3rd box.

"Peter" wrote in message
...

"Mike" wrote

1090 ES doesn't have the bandwidth necessary to do much in the way of
large
data transfers, however as far as the big airplanes go, there's really not
much need. ACARS gives them far more and would not go away even if it
were
possible to put those products on 1090 ES.

What does ACARS run on? Satellite data, or shortwave radio?

You can read all about it on Wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACARS

I don't have that much knowledge about ACARS. All I know is ARINC maintains
that service and ACARS equipped aircraft can receive clearance delivery
service on it at major airports in the US without ever talking to ATC. I've
heard Jet-A burners say they can receive METARs, NOTAMs, and digital ATIS
information on it. I would assume airline dispatchers can send and/or
receive short text messages on it with the aircrews, but I have no idea if
this is the case.