Challenger Crashe at TEB

"Highfllyer" wrote in message
...


Highflyer
Highflight Aviation Services
Pinckneyville Airport ( PJY )

PS: annual rec.aviation flyin at Pinckneyville is coming up May 21, 22,
and
23. Be there or be square! :-)

Highflyer: Where have you been? I haven't" heard" your
"voice" for quite a while. Welcome back anyhow.

Bob Barker N8749S

Thanks for the clarification. All the ones I have flown are cable actuated
and they of course have gust locks. Even so, one of our Lears had the
rudder stops beat up when a Falcon parked right behind us blew our rudder
around, even with the gust lock installed. Ouch.


I know the feeling. I am completing a G-550 for a client. A couple
of months ago they pushed it out of the paint hangar. The spoiler
boards were disconnected from their actuators so they could paint
under them. An airliner coming off of the gate swung around and blew
the boards open damaging them and the panels forward of the boards.
Big ouch!!!

Large transport aircraft either restrict or stop the hydraulic flow to
and from the actuators with pressure off so they don't need any other
locks.

"Don Hammer" wrote in message
...

Large transport aircraft either restrict or stop the hydraulic flow to
and from the actuators with pressure off so they don't need any other
locks.

As the late Johnny Carson would say, "I didn't know that."

Any insight on what may cause the Challenger to be unable to unstick?

"Gary Mishler" wrote in message news:jGANd.52214$EG1.44351@attbi_s53...

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message ...
Blueskies wrote:

I've never heard of a modern bizjet using control locks, but I suppose there are some that do.


Every one I have ever flown does, but I have not flown Challengers. I would be they do though as they have to have
wind gust protection while parked.



Just heard that the pilot of the Colorado plane said the controls were locked up also, couldn't move the yoke...

Any insight on what may cause the Challenger to be unable to unstick?


The way the Challenger is built, you can pull a handle on the console
and split the elevators. That way each side has an elevator. Its use
is for an in-flight jam. Of course, on the takeoff roll there
wouldn't be time to split them and talk about it.

You have two twin actuators receiving pressure from two systems so
loss of a single system wouldn't change anything. With a loss of both
systems, you still have manual control if you pull hard enough. Any
hydraulic failure would be preceded by lots of cockpit warnings. All
that said, I don't think hydraulic failure comes in to play. I guess
there is an outside chance of a bad actuator locking things up.

My initial thought is moisture physically froze something and the
controls didn't get checked prior to takeoff. We always exercised the
controls after we had hydraulic pressure. It also weighs heavily on
my mind that even though both pilots had a lot of time, neither had
much time in type. The Challengers are great aircraft, but they are
certainly a different animal.

I'm sure the NTSB will get it all sorted out in the end.

The way the Challenger is built, you can pull a handle on the console
and split the elevators. That way each side has an elevator. Its use
is for an in-flight jam.

The pilot has an elevator on the left side of the tail, and the
copilot has an elevator on the right side of the tail? This seems
very... er... creative. What are the consequences of asymetric elevation?

Jose
--
Nothing is more powerful than a commercial interest.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Jose wrote

The pilot has an elevator on the left side of the tail, and the
copilot has an elevator on the right side of the tail? This seems
very... er... creative. What are the consequences of asymetric
elevation?

Same goes all the way back to the B-707 designed in the '50s.
The yokes were connected together by a slip clutch under the
cockpit floor. In fact, the yokes were not even connected to
the elevators. They controlled the "control tabs" which in turn
flew the elevators into position. It was not unusual to see a
B-707 taxi with one elevator UP and the other one DOWN.

Bob Moore

On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 21:18:19 GMT, Jose
wrote:

The pilot has an elevator on the left side of the tail, and the
copilot has an elevator on the right side of the tail? This seems
very... er... creative. What are the consequences of asymetric elevation?

Jose

I would assume that who does the most will make it happen! Obviously,
procedures call for only one at the controls when split. BTW - the
ailerons split also.


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"George Patterson" wrote in message No mention of the fact that the
deceleration produced by barriers like that
would have killed everyone on board this aircraft had they been in place.

That's barriers, not barricades. Foam barriers are being installed at most
large airports at the ends of the runways. They are made from special cement
which crunches when landing gears run through it thus decelerating the
aircraft with minimum damage. It is an excellent idea for airports such as
TEB.

D.

Don Hammer wrote:

Any insight on what may cause the Challenger to be unable to unstick?

Avweb has reported that the pilots stated to investigators in this crash
and the last Challenger crash a few months ago in Colorado that they
were unable to pull the stick back during takeoff.