Rogue IFR

"Michael 182" wrote in message
news:U6Ylb.5040$ao4.10373@attbi_s51...

C'mon - if it's solid deck from 300' up to 5000' and he's at 1200', it is
pretty obvious. Maybe not legally enforcable, but obvious.


Yeah, that's obvious, but how can you tell it's solid deck from 300' to
5000' by looking at a radar scope?

Roger Long wrote:


Yikes! What are they teaching student pilots these days? I've asked here
before and seem to find myself asking myself that question a lot. You can'
t teach common sense but the legality of what he's doing didn't even seem to
be on his radar screen.


Got nothing to do with what's being taught to students today. Flying in
the clouds is not hard to learn.


What does ATC do when they see a 1200 target boring through what they know
is solid IMC?

Nothing, we don't ever really know that you are illegal.

You wouldn't from the scope, but there are plenty of days when the
conditions are well known. Do you mean you have no idea what the cloud
conditions are as a controller? Not such that you can decide if he is
violating VFR, but enough to know, at least in your own head, that there is
no way this guy is VMC...


"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Michael 182" wrote in message
news:U6Ylb.5040$ao4.10373@attbi_s51...

C'mon - if it's solid deck from 300' up to 5000' and he's at 1200', it
is
pretty obvious. Maybe not legally enforcable, but obvious.


Yeah, that's obvious, but how can you tell it's solid deck from 300' to
5000' by looking at a radar scope?

In article ,
"Roger Long" om
wrote:


It occurs to me that this guy would never have been doing this if the GPS
hadn't been invented. He just watches the gauges and follows the little
pointer until he see the airport.

While the GPS may give them more accuracy, this was being done long
before the GPS became available.

--
Dale L. Falk

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.

http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html

"Michael 182" wrote in message
news:_lYlb.4765$mZ5.23361@attbi_s54...

You wouldn't from the scope, but there are plenty of days when the
conditions are well known. Do you mean you have no idea what the cloud
conditions are as a controller? Not such that you can decide if he is
violating VFR, but enough to know, at least in your own head, that there
is
no way this guy is VMC...


You would need a PIREP from someone at the same spot at the same time.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in

You would need a PIREP from someone at the same spot at the same time.

*****************************
No, that would be called a NTSB report. ;o
--
Jim in NC

While the GPS may give them more accuracy, this was being done long
before the GPS became available.


But now they live long enough to amaze the rest of us

Seriously though, I'm sure the accuracy of the GPS and the cute little
moving map makes this much more tempting, and thus, common.

--
Roger Long

"Roger Long" om
I ran into an old client today and we stumbled on to the flying topic.
Turns out he got his PP a couple years ago and bought a plane.

He said with a completely straight face that he's thinking of getting an
instrument rating because he "flies in IMC a lot." He does OK but would
like to be able to ask ATC where the other planes are and fly into towered
airports.

Why "towered airports"? Anyway, anyone who does much night XC frequently
experiences brief periods of IMC. And, there are many parts of North
America where, more days than not, XC VFR is "not recommended" by flight
service due to possible patches of IMC en route. People who fly a lot of
VFR XCs get used to figuring out what they're going to do when the weather
starts to close in. The cardinal rule is getting sure knowledge that a VFR
airport is close by. If you have 50NM to go and you know that your
destination is *for sure* VFR and you have flight following, many, if not
most IFR pilots wouldn't bother to file an IFR plan if they're only going to
experience a few minutes of IMC. It's illegal, but people have been doing
it regularly for years.

With moving map GPS, weather in the cockpit and better communications, this
will only increase. There was a good article in AOPA Pilot, I think, about
this. They called it flying "Prentend VFR".

What does ATC do when they see a 1200 target boring through what they know
is solid IMC?

They wouldn't know unless someone flying close by told them.

Le Moo

Roger Long wrote:

What does ATC do when they see a 1200 target boring through what they know
is solid IMC?

The real problem is when ATC can't see him at all. Then you'd better pray he
doesn't cross paths with someone on an IFR flight plan.

George Patterson
You can dress a hog in a tuxedo, but he still wants to roll in the mud.

Happy Dog wrote:

If you have 50NM to go and you know that your destination is *for
sure* VFR and you have flight following, many, if not most IFR pilots
wouldn't bother to file an IFR plan if they're only going to
experience a few minutes of IMC. It's illegal, but people have been
doing it regularly for years.


You mean, if there was some cloud cover that you wanted to go through,
to get into the clear above, you cannot do that legally, even if you are
IFR rated, unless you file an IFR plan?

I'm not IFR rated, but my then CFI once did that, so that we could get
some practice in by staying in the clear over the cloud cover.

-Sridhar