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#111
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Why don't voice radio communications use FM?
Emily writes:
And yes, the official probable cause lists the heterodyne. No, it does not, at least not if you're thinking of the NTSB reports. The probable causes a - Pilot in command - failed to follow approved procedures, directives, etc. (KLM) - Pilot in command - failed to abort takeoff (KLM) - Personnel - Miscellaneous-personnel: Pilot of other aircraft (Pan Am) The first report is DCA77RA014, the second is DCA77RA014. For the KLM flight, the probable-cause report also lists "Pilot in command - misunderstanding of orders or instructions" as a factor. I thought you would have known that, seeing as you know allegedly read all these accident reports. You can read them yourself with the NTSB IDs above. -- Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail. |
#112
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Why don't voice radio communications use FM?
Mxsmanic wrote:
Emily writes: And yes, the official probable cause lists the heterodyne. No, it does not, at least not if you're thinking of the NTSB reports. The probable causes a - Pilot in command - failed to follow approved procedures, directives, etc. (KLM) - Pilot in command - failed to abort takeoff (KLM) - Personnel - Miscellaneous-personnel: Pilot of other aircraft (Pan Am) The first report is DCA77RA014, the second is DCA77RA014. For the KLM flight, the probable-cause report also lists "Pilot in command - misunderstanding of orders or instructions" as a factor. I thought you would have known that, seeing as you know allegedly read all these accident reports. You can read them yourself with the NTSB IDs above. I wasn't reading the NTSB report. |
#113
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Why don't voice radio communications use FM?
Dan,
He's got a ton of it to spread around. He must be Skylune ;-) -- Thomas Borchert (EDDH) |
#114
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Why don't voice radio communications use FM?
Mxsmanic,
So I guess you can point to the accidents caused by Windows-based glass cockpits as well as you pointed to sources for accidents caused by AM radios? -- Thomas Borchert (EDDH) |
#115
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Why don't voice radio communications use FM?
Emily writes:
He didn't hear ANYTHING but a heterodyne. Not so. The transmission was hard to make out, but it was not completely obliterated. And even if he had heard only that, a squeal is not a take-off clearance. Either he was deliberately negligent, or he heard something he wanted to hear. The actual situation was more complex, but misunderstanding was a key part of it. If you want to say he heard the heterodyne as clearance to take off, fine, but that's not what we're talking about. That counts as hearing what you want to hear. The OP stated that AM results in poor transmission quality and therefore pilots will hear what they want to hear. Yes. When a transmission is ambiguous, pilots will hear what they want to hear. -- Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail. |
#116
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Why don't voice radio communications use FM?
Emily writes:
That was my point. He heard what he wanted to hear, but not because of jarbled radio transmission. Only the first part has been established. Nobody knows why he heard what he wanted to hear; it may or may not have been unintelligible transmission. -- Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail. |
#117
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Why don't voice radio communications use FM?
Emily writes:
But you just said that all communications are air-ground. You can't back pedal. I can expect others here to have at least a basic knowledge of how such communications work. -- Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail. |
#118
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Why don't voice radio communications use FM?
Emily writes:
Speaking as someone who works for an OEM that works with the latest cutting edge technology, Thomas is entirely correct. Famous last words again. OEMs that work with cutting-edge technology are particularly prone to mess up. -- Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail. |
#119
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Why don't voice radio communications use FM?
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#120
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Why don't voice radio communications use FM?
Emily schrieb:
I think there was some confusion here. I wasn't saying that he never heard ATC at all, just that the transmission confusion was due to the heterodyne, not static or poor transmission quality. Ok. And I'm saying that the heterodyne didn't cause anything at all. More precisely, it caused that the Panam couldn't warn the KLM that they were still on the runway, which maybe could have prevented the accident in the last second, agreed. But the fatal misunderstanding occured in perfect radio conditions and was probably caused by the overall confusion of the situation (at all participants) and by the desire of the KLM crew to continue their trip. Stefan |
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