compass turns with high mounted compass (Cessna 152)

I'm just starting out my instrument training in a Cessna 152 that has a
compass mounted at the top of the windshield. Here's a sample picture for
those who have never seen it, http://www.airliners.net/open.file/643201/M

Can anyone tell me if it's still possible to do compass turns under the hood
with this kind of setup? I've seen a lot of planes with high mounted
compasses, so I imagine this isn't a new question.

- Ray

Ray,

It depends on you. Next time you are in the plane with a hood (or
substitute) on see if you can see the compass. That should answer your
question.

Most people can manage that.

Daniel

"Ray" wrote in message
...
I'm just starting out my instrument training in a Cessna 152 that has a
compass mounted at the top of the windshield. Here's a sample picture for
those who have never seen it, http://www.airliners.net/open.file/643201/M

Can anyone tell me if it's still possible to do compass turns under the
hood
with this kind of setup? I've seen a lot of planes with high mounted
compasses, so I imagine this isn't a new question.

- Ray

I think the problem is that, with a high-mounted compass, you are
looking out the window every time you look at the compass. I'm not
sure how examiners deal with this.

On 1 Apr 2005 06:26:48 -0800, "paul kgyy" wrote:

I think the problem is that, with a high-mounted compass, you are
looking out the window every time you look at the compass. I'm not
sure how examiners deal with this.


Some examiners don't care.

Others will just tell you your compass heading whenever you ask for
it.

Unrelated response to your specific question.... do they have a dual
com/nav stack in the 152? I ask, because all the 152 trainers I've seen at
my FBO only have one com and one nav. I would think that adding another
stack would only serve to further reduce the marginally okay max load capy
of the 152?

--
--
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Cecil
PP-ASEL-IA
Student - CP-ASEL

Check out my personal flying adventures from my first flight to the
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Complete with pictures and text at: www.bayareapilot.com

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- Antoine de Saint-Exupery -

"We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with
this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"
- Cecil Day Lewis -
"Ray" wrote in message
...
I'm just starting out my instrument training in a Cessna 152 that has a
compass mounted at the top of the windshield. Here's a sample picture for
those who have never seen it, http://www.airliners.net/open.file/643201/M

Can anyone tell me if it's still possible to do compass turns under the
hood
with this kind of setup? I've seen a lot of planes with high mounted
compasses, so I imagine this isn't a new question.

- Ray

Ask the CFI to tell you when you hit the compass heading
you want to start your rollout on. Talk thru your logic for
selecting this heading. (compensating for lead/lag of the
compass)


"Ray" wrote in message
...
I'm just starting out my instrument training in a Cessna 152 that has a
compass mounted at the top of the windshield. Here's a sample picture for
those who have never seen it, http://www.airliners.net/open.file/643201/M

Can anyone tell me if it's still possible to do compass turns under the
hood
with this kind of setup? I've seen a lot of planes with high mounted
compasses, so I imagine this isn't a new question.

- Ray

Compass turns are not required by the PTS. In my opinion, teaching and
practicing compass turns is a complete waste of time that could be more
profitably spent on more practical maneuvers. OTOH, timed turns make
perfectly good sense.

Imagine that you are an instrument-rated pilot flying on a dark and stormy
night. Your vacuum pump fails (or your vacuum-operated attitude
indicator/heading indicator fails). Your wife is scared, your kids are
crying, the turbulence is moderate to extreme, and you are trying to
remember whether to lag or lead the rollout by...the latitude? One-half the
latitude? Can't remember, and the situation is not getting any better.

Compare that with simply rolling into a standard rate turn (still hard to
maintain in turbulence) and watching the seconds tick by. BTW, nobody
expects you to roll out anywhere close to a desired heading when conditions
are really bad.

Bob Gardner

"paul kgyy" wrote in message
oups.com...
I think the problem is that, with a high-mounted compass, you are
looking out the window every time you look at the compass. I'm not
sure how examiners deal with this.

I think the problem is that, with a high-mounted compass, you are
looking out the window every time you look at the compass. I'm not
sure how examiners deal with this.

From the Instrument Rating PTS:

Applicants may have an unfair advantage during performance of the TASK using
the backup flight instruments during an instrument approach due to the
location of the magnetic compass in some aircraft. When crosschecking the
magnetic compass heading, a view of the runway or other visual clue may be
sighted. It is the examiner's responsibility to determine if the applicant is
receiving visual clues from outside the cockpit. If an examiner feels that the
applicant is receiving visual clues, the examiner may devise other options to
limit the applicant's view. By no means shall the examiner limit his or her
view as the safety pilot.

Compass turns are not required by the PTS. In my opinion, teaching and
practicing compass turns is a complete waste of time that could be more
profitably spent on more practical maneuvers. OTOH, timed turns make
perfectly good sense....

Compare that with simply rolling into a standard rate turn (still hard to
maintain in turbulence) and watching the seconds tick by. BTW, nobody
expects you to roll out anywhere close to a desired heading when conditions
are really bad.

Yes, compass turns are not in the new PTS. However, I think that it's still a
skill worth learning. I prefer (and teach) using timing for small turns
(heading change 60 degrees or less), and the compass for larger turns. All
you really need to remember is that if the desired heading is north, you roll
out early, and if the desired heading is south, you go past it before rolling
out. This gets you close, and then you used a small timed turn to get closer.
I really think this is easier than trying to figure out the time required for
say, a right turn from 320 to 180. There's also the effect of the turn
coordinator calibration.

But I wouldn't insist on compass turns if the pilot makes acceptable timed
turns.

I'm with Gardner on this one.

compass turns are a complete waste of time and money.

Use a clock. Forget lead, lag, accelerate north, decelerate south,
and all the rest of the anal aviation gobbledygook..





On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 16:28:32 GMT, "OtisWinslow"
wrote:

Ask the CFI to tell you when you hit the compass heading
you want to start your rollout on. Talk thru your logic for
selecting this heading. (compensating for lead/lag of the
compass)


"Ray" wrote in message
...
I'm just starting out my instrument training in a Cessna 152 that has a
compass mounted at the top of the windshield. Here's a sample picture for
those who have never seen it, http://www.airliners.net/open.file/643201/M

Can anyone tell me if it's still possible to do compass turns under the
hood
with this kind of setup? I've seen a lot of planes with high mounted
compasses, so I imagine this isn't a new question.

- Ray