How do you leave this airport IMC?

On the way to Pinckneyville last weekend, I stopped at Jimmy Stewart
Field, Indiana, PA. KIDI. I had to shoot the GPS 28 approach with
a cirle to land 10. There's a nice transition off the Revloc VOR.

Since we had a late start, we had planned to stop there for the night,
but by the time we left for the hotel, the overcast had broken up and
it was clear. Next morning, we left VFR.

Looking at the plates, 10/28 has minima 300-1 and 600-1 respectively.
The procedure for runwya 10 is to climb runway heading to 2300 before
proceeding on course. The MSA for the area is 4200. How do you get
from the DP to the nearest Victor airway safely when it's 300 and 1?


Morris

In a previous article, Journeyman said:
Looking at the plates, 10/28 has minima 300-1 and 600-1 respectively.
The procedure for runwya 10 is to climb runway heading to 2300 before
proceeding on course. The MSA for the area is 4200. How do you get
from the DP to the nearest Victor airway safely when it's 300 and 1?

There never has been a requirement that you can depart when the conditions
are at minimums. There are lots of airports where you can get in but you
can't get out until the weather lifts.


--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
UNIX was half a billion (500000000) seconds old on
Tue Nov 5 00:53:20 1985 GMT (measuring since the time(2) epoch).
-- Andy Tannenbaum

"Paul Tomblin" wrote in message
...
In a previous article, Journeyman said:
Looking at the plates, 10/28 has minima 300-1 and 600-1 respectively.
The procedure for runwya 10 is to climb runway heading to 2300 before
proceeding on course. The MSA for the area is 4200. How do you get
from the DP to the nearest Victor airway safely when it's 300 and 1?

There never has been a requirement that you can depart when the conditions
are at minimums. There are lots of airports where you can get in but you
can't get out until the weather lifts.

Morris is speaking of the takeoff minimums, not the landing minimums.
Takeoff minimums should permit a safe takeoff.

There's no requirement to reach the MSA, though. That's only applicable if
you get lost. If you fly the DP and keep climbing while you intercept your
airway, you should be safe (though of course it's a good idea to verify that
with the Detroit sectional chart).

--Gary

"Gary Drescher" wrote in message
...
There's no requirement to reach the MSA, though. That's only applicable if
you get lost. If you fly the DP and keep climbing while you intercept your
airway, you should be safe (though of course it's a good idea to verify
that with the Detroit sectional chart).

Oh, and if you'll be intercepting the airway below MEA, it's also a good
idea to verify VOR reception, taking account of standard service volume and
any notes in the A/FD.

--Gary

"Journeyman" wrote in message
. ..

On the way to Pinckneyville last weekend, I stopped at Jimmy Stewart
Field, Indiana, PA. KIDI. I had to shoot the GPS 28 approach with
a cirle to land 10. There's a nice transition off the Revloc VOR.

Since we had a late start, we had planned to stop there for the night,
but by the time we left for the hotel, the overcast had broken up and
it was clear. Next morning, we left VFR.

Looking at the plates, 10/28 has minima 300-1 and 600-1 respectively.
The procedure for runwya 10 is to climb runway heading to 2300 before
proceeding on course. The MSA for the area is 4200. How do you get
from the DP to the nearest Victor airway safely when it's 300 and 1?


Departing runway 28 I'd make sure I crossed the departure end of the runway
at least 35 feet above the departure end of runway elevation, that should be
easy as the runway slopes downward to the west some 45 feet. I'd climb to
400 feet above the departure end of runway elevation before making my
initial turn and I'd maintain a minimum climb gradient of 200 feet per
nautical mile until above the minimum IFR altitude.

In article , Paul Tomblin wrote:
In a previous article, Journeyman said:
Looking at the plates, 10/28 has minima 300-1 and 600-1 respectively.
The procedure for runwya 10 is to climb runway heading to 2300 before
proceeding on course. The MSA for the area is 4200. How do you get
from the DP to the nearest Victor airway safely when it's 300 and 1?

There never has been a requirement that you can depart when the conditions
are at minimums. There are lots of airports where you can get in but you
can't get out until the weather lifts.

Sure, but the book lists departure minima for 10/28. I can't
figure out how to go from those minima to enroute safely. If
the minima are there, I'd assume there was a way.


Morris

In article . net, Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

Looking at the plates, 10/28 has minima 300-1 and 600-1 respectively.
The procedure for runwya 10 is to climb runway heading to 2300 before
proceeding on course. The MSA for the area is 4200. How do you get
from the DP to the nearest Victor airway safely when it's 300 and 1?

Departing runway 28 I'd make sure I crossed the departure end of the runway
at least 35 feet above the departure end of runway elevation, that should be
easy as the runway slopes downward to the west some 45 feet. I'd climb to
400 feet above the departure end of runway elevation before making my
initial turn and I'd maintain a minimum climb gradient of 200 feet per
nautical mile until above the minimum IFR altitude.

Thanks, Steven. That was the missing piece of information.


Morris (heading back to the books for a refresher)

Unless there are specified takeoff minimums, a flight conducted under Part
91 does not have any departure weather requirements, only
destination/alternate requirements. That is where judgement comes into
play. You can legally takeoff with only enough viz to see the centerline.
Is that smart??

PK


"Journeyman" wrote in message
. ..

On the way to Pinckneyville last weekend, I stopped at Jimmy Stewart
Field, Indiana, PA. KIDI. I had to shoot the GPS 28 approach with
a cirle to land 10. There's a nice transition off the Revloc VOR.

Since we had a late start, we had planned to stop there for the night,
but by the time we left for the hotel, the overcast had broken up and
it was clear. Next morning, we left VFR.

Looking at the plates, 10/28 has minima 300-1 and 600-1 respectively.
The procedure for runwya 10 is to climb runway heading to 2300 before
proceeding on course. The MSA for the area is 4200. How do you get
from the DP to the nearest Victor airway safely when it's 300 and 1?


Morris

You may be remembering some Canadian regs. The MSA is irrelevant. It has no
operational significance and is not part of an instrument approach
procedure. Under Part 91, you don't have any takeoff minimums.

If you are really concerned, climb over the departure airport until you feel
comfortable in proceeding.

Bob Gardner

"Journeyman" wrote in message
. ..

On the way to Pinckneyville last weekend, I stopped at Jimmy Stewart
Field, Indiana, PA. KIDI. I had to shoot the GPS 28 approach with
a cirle to land 10. There's a nice transition off the Revloc VOR.

Since we had a late start, we had planned to stop there for the night,
but by the time we left for the hotel, the overcast had broken up and
it was clear. Next morning, we left VFR.

Looking at the plates, 10/28 has minima 300-1 and 600-1 respectively.
The procedure for runwya 10 is to climb runway heading to 2300 before
proceeding on course. The MSA for the area is 4200. How do you get
from the DP to the nearest Victor airway safely when it's 300 and 1?


Morris

Journeyman wrote:
On the way to Pinckneyville last weekend, I stopped at Jimmy Stewart
Field, Indiana, PA. KIDI. I had to shoot the GPS 28 approach with
a cirle to land 10. There's a nice transition off the Revloc VOR.

Since we had a late start, we had planned to stop there for the night,
but by the time we left for the hotel, the overcast had broken up and
it was clear. Next morning, we left VFR.

Looking at the plates, 10/28 has minima 300-1 and 600-1 respectively.
The procedure for runwya 10 is to climb runway heading to 2300 before
proceeding on course. The MSA for the area is 4200. How do you get
from the DP to the nearest Victor airway safely when it's 300 and 1?


Morris

Whenever an IFR approach procedure is created for an airport, the
procedure specialist has to also review the airport for diverse
departures and ensure there are no penetrations to a standard 200' per
NM climb gradient in any direction, assuming a climb to 400' above the
Departure end of runway (DER) before any turns are commenced. If there
are penetrations, then he/she has to create a departure procedure to
avoid those obstacles. If the only departure penetrations are close to
the airport (within 3 miles) and can be avoided visually, then the
specialist only has to provide a ceiling that is higher than the
obstacle, and a visibility value that allows the obstacle to be seen
from the runway end. If the penetration is farther out than 3 statute
miles, then the specialist either has to provide a climb gradient that
will clear the obstacle if a pilot happens to turn directly toward it
(or if the obstacle is straight ahead), or if it's more than 15 degrees
off to either side of straight ahead, then they can provide an altitude
to climb to before allowing a turn that will ensure a 200' climb
gradient clears the obstacle after the turn.
From the example you gave, departures from Rwy 28 only have low,
close-in obstacles within 1 mile of the DER that can be avoided visually
and no other obstacle penetrations beyond that. Departing Rwy 10, it
would appear that you have both low close-in obstacles within 1 mile
that can be cleared visually, and also other obstacles further than 3
miles from DER and to the right or left of a plus/minus 15 degree splay
from the DER that can't be cleared visually, but will be cleared as long
as you climb to 2300 before beginning any turns.

To answer your question, if it's 300/1, you would have to depart runway
28 and can turn toward the airway once reaching 400' above DER. (You had
the minima reversed, Rwy 10 is 600/1, and Rwy 28 is 300/1.)

You can view a table that gives the TERPS specialist instructions on
what needs to be published on a departure procedure at this website
(page 4 of 74);
http://av-info.faa.gov/terps/Directi...s/8260.46B.pdf

Newer departure procedures would also list the obstacles that are close
in and also the ones that cause creation of a departure route to avoid
the obstacles, older procedures don't have the obstacle notes.

JPH