Most Challenging Instrument Approaches in Western US?

I am curious to hear this group's thoughts on the most challenging
instrument approaches in the Western US. Perhaps this not the best way
to phrase the question, because I am planning a trip with a fellow
instrument student and our instructor around the Western US this winter,
similar to those organized by outfits such as IFR West. So, I am
looking for challenging approaches that will be a good learning
opportunity for the instrument student. I fly in the Bay Area, so I'm
no stranger to ATC. We will probably do the trip in an all-glass SR-20,
so no ADF. I consider "Western US" to be anything where radio stations
begin with a "K" Thanks in advance for your suggestions,
-angus

Or at nightfall...

Mike Rapoport wrote:

Aspen, CO in real IMC..

Mike
MU-2

"Angus Davis" wrote in message
...
I am curious to hear this group's thoughts on the most challenging
instrument approaches in the Western US. Perhaps this not the best way
to phrase the question, because I am planning a trip with a fellow
instrument student and our instructor around the Western US this winter,
similar to those organized by outfits such as IFR West. So, I am
looking for challenging approaches that will be a good learning
opportunity for the instrument student. I fly in the Bay Area, so I'm
no stranger to ATC. We will probably do the trip in an all-glass SR-20,
so no ADF. I consider "Western US" to be anything where radio stations
begin with a "K" Thanks in advance for your suggestions,
-angus


--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email
http://www.andraka.com

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
.net...
Aspen, CO in real IMC..

Mike
MU-2


They still have that microwave landing system there?

The ILS 13 at Provo, UT (PVU) looks pretty complicated. Especially if you
fly the full procedure starting at the FFU IAF. I haven't flown it in real
life, but it was a handful in a simulator.

Phil
www.pfactor.com

Good question, but there are no challenging approaches in the WORLD.
We have our instrument rating. There comes a time when approaches are
approaches. Some are higher workload than others, but none are
"challenging."

Yes, I've been to Aspen. I've been to Hong Kong. I've been to Taipei.
Been there done that, and it's just a normal approach with some
special issues.

Lynne

Angus Davis wrote in message ...
I am curious to hear this group's thoughts on the most challenging
instrument approaches in the Western US. Perhaps this not the best way
to phrase the question, because I am planning a trip with a fellow
instrument student and our instructor around the Western US this winter,
similar to those organized by outfits such as IFR West. So, I am
looking for challenging approaches that will be a good learning
opportunity for the instrument student. I fly in the Bay Area, so I'm
no stranger to ATC. We will probably do the trip in an all-glass SR-20,
so no ADF. I consider "Western US" to be anything where radio stations
begin with a "K" Thanks in advance for your suggestions,
-angus

If you fly in the SF Bay Area, you're probably already familiar with the
Monterey LOC DME 28L approach. It has several step downs and a some
important terrain issues. This is an approach where the safety
pilot/instructor should have the pilot remove the hood a couple of times to
see the consequences of making a mistake.

1. If you're getting vectors to final, just before interception take a look
at the terrain ahead to see where you'd be going if you didn't receive a
clearance to intercept and just kept flying through the locallizer on the
vector heading.

2. As you reach the minimum altitude for each stopdown, take a look outside
to your left. I'll bet you've never seen terrain and houses so close before.

After seeing where the terrain is on final, I added 500' to the minimum
step-down altitudes for this approach...

Mick Ruthven

"Angus Davis" wrote in message
...
I am curious to hear this group's thoughts on the most challenging
instrument approaches in the Western US. Perhaps this not the best way
to phrase the question, because I am planning a trip with a fellow
instrument student and our instructor around the Western US this winter,
similar to those organized by outfits such as IFR West. So, I am
looking for challenging approaches that will be a good learning
opportunity for the instrument student. I fly in the Bay Area, so I'm
no stranger to ATC. We will probably do the trip in an all-glass SR-20,
so no ADF. I consider "Western US" to be anything where radio stations
begin with a "K" Thanks in advance for your suggestions,
-angus

Lynne Miller wrote:

Good question, but there are no challenging approaches in the WORLD.
We have our instrument rating. There comes a time when approaches are
approaches. Some are higher workload than others, but none are
"challenging."

Yes, I've been to Aspen. I've been to Hong Kong. I've been to Taipei.
Been there done that, and it's just a normal approach with some
special issues.

Lynne,
I am glad to hear your opinion that challenging instrument approaches do
not exist. Given your extensive experience, perhaps you could expand on
your reply by noting those approaches you've flown over the years that
would yield the greatest learning opportunity for instrument students.
Thanks,
-angus

The answers so far seem to define challenging as "greatest risk if you mess
up".
That's a fair definition but if you go by difficulty of execution then the
NDB
to Siskiyou County, CA, (SIY iirc) looks like fun. I've never flown it but
it involves
a substantial dogleg at the NDB (particularly good if there's a crosswind)
as well as a death-defying descent rate on final.

John

"Angus Davis" wrote in message
...
I am curious to hear this group's thoughts on the most challenging
instrument approaches in the Western US. Perhaps this not the best way
to phrase the question, because I am planning a trip with a fellow
instrument student and our instructor around the Western US this winter,
similar to those organized by outfits such as IFR West. So, I am
looking for challenging approaches that will be a good learning
opportunity for the instrument student. I fly in the Bay Area, so I'm
no stranger to ATC. We will probably do the trip in an all-glass SR-20,
so no ADF. I consider "Western US" to be anything where radio stations
begin with a "K" Thanks in advance for your suggestions,
-angus

John Harper wrote:

The answers so far seem to define challenging as "greatest risk if you mess
up".
That's a fair definition but if you go by difficulty of execution then the
NDB
to Siskiyou County, CA, (SIY iirc) looks like fun. I've never flown it but
it involves
a substantial dogleg at the NDB (particularly good if there's a crosswind)
as well as a death-defying descent rate on final.


Juneau, Alaska is no "bowl of peaches" either.

A fellow controller was riding jumpseat on a 727 a
number of years ago on a flight from Anchorage to
Seattle with intermediate stop at Juneau. The pilot
was enthused that this would be his first flight into
Juneau with VFR conditions.

There is a rather large dogleg to turn final and a
hill just slides under as you are, or just before,
making the dogleg. The Captain said that was the LAST
time he wanted to make the approach to Juneau in VFR
conditions.


Lou.

"Lynne Miller" wrote:

Yes, I've been to Aspen. I've been to Hong Kong. I've been to Taipei.
Been there done that, and it's just a normal approach with some
special issues.

Compulsive liar.