Garmin 1000 turn co-ordinator?

Hi.

How do the new glass cockpits (Garmin or Avidyne) indicate rate of turn,
and also whether the plane is slipping or skidding?

I know we can do the simple rule of thumb sum for standard rate turns,
giving the approx. bank angle for the speed we're using, but we're all
trained to check the little wings and the ball for reassurance as part
of the scan in conventionally instrumented aircraft.

On any picture of these new screens, I can't see where there is an
indication of the rate of turn, although I think lack of co-ordination
may manifest itself by another pointer coming away from the main one on
the AI. No article I've read, so far, on these screens mentions these
points.

--
John H. Kay

John H. Kay wrote:


How do the new glass cockpits (Garmin or Avidyne) indicate rate of turn,
snip

I asked this question at a G1000 demo and was shown that the rate of
turn indicator is located just above the heading indicator. In fact,
the pointer of the rate of turn indicator is also the pointer for the
heading indicator.

Seeing that the pointer for both was the same, I asked the Garmin rep if
the rate scale, rather than the pointer, will move during a turn. He
did not know the answer, but in thinking about it, he agreed that it
made sense that the scale will move.

Regarding the "ball" to indicate turn coordination, I didn't have a
chance to ask about that.

--
Peter










----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

Regarding the "ball" to indicate turn coordination, I didn't have a
chance to ask about that.


That's one of the dumbest things. The ball is probably one of the most simple
and reliable indicators in an airplane cockpit. To replace it with a slew of
electronics makes no sense at all. There's gotta be a real ball in there
somewhere.

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

Peter and Jose,


Regarding the "ball" to indicate turn coordination, I didn't have a
chance to ask about that.

Thanks for the first bit about the rate of turn.

The ball is probably one of the most simple
and reliable indicators in an airplane cockpit. To replace it with a slew of
electronics makes no sense at all. There's gotta be a real ball in there
somewhere.

Well, you'd think so, but apparently not.

Let's see if anyone else knows.
--
John H. Kay

Let's see if anyone else knows.

Well, I can't address the Garmin 1000, but I am finishing up an RV-8A
with a glass cockpit...Blue Mountain Avaition EFIS 1 and a Garmin-AT
CNX-80.

I have no commercial involvement with Blue Mountain (well, they DO
have my $20K, but other than that...). If you want to see some pics of
how the Flight Director looks, go to www.bluemountainaviation.com.

Regarding standard rate turns, but blue mountain has ticks on the
flight director that represent standard rate turns. Actually, and
pretty cool, it is "aware" of the airspeed, so it sets the ticks to
cause a standard rate regardless of how fast I am going. There is an
artificial ball at the bottom of the flight director.

For backup, I have also added an electic T&B, which has that old
reliable sprirt level ball on it.

Hope that helps.

Jim

Jim Harper wrote:


Regarding standard rate turns, but blue mountain has ticks on the
flight director that represent standard rate turns. Actually, and
pretty cool, it is "aware" of the airspeed, so it sets the ticks to
cause a standard rate regardless of how fast I am going. There is an
artificial ball at the bottom of the flight director.

Checking my understanding...

This is the equivilant of having "standard rate" marks on the AI where the
marks move based upon airspace?

If so: Nice.

- Andrew

Are you going to use any conventional instruments for redundancy? I have a
Murphy Moose kit on order and I am thinking ahead about what I want as far
as instruments and avionics go. I am considering both conventional and
glass cockpit types. I am weighing the weight and ease of installation
heavily against cost. It would be nice to forgo the vacuum system
altogether.

Mike
MU-2


"Jim Harper" wrote in message
m...
Let's see if anyone else knows.

Well, I can't address the Garmin 1000, but I am finishing up an RV-8A
with a glass cockpit...Blue Mountain Avaition EFIS 1 and a Garmin-AT
CNX-80.

I have no commercial involvement with Blue Mountain (well, they DO
have my $20K, but other than that...). If you want to see some pics of
how the Flight Director looks, go to www.bluemountainaviation.com.

Regarding standard rate turns, but blue mountain has ticks on the
flight director that represent standard rate turns. Actually, and
pretty cool, it is "aware" of the airspeed, so it sets the ticks to
cause a standard rate regardless of how fast I am going. There is an
artificial ball at the bottom of the flight director.

For backup, I have also added an electic T&B, which has that old
reliable sprirt level ball on it.

Hope that helps.

Jim

Under the arc at the topmost part of the screen (the arc is the rate
of turn indicator), you will see a small trapezoid. This is the "ball
indicator" and shows skids and slips by moving in the appropriate
direction. It's in a very logical place and is an easy-to-monitor
indication.

This photo cut off for some reason but you can still see the white
reference point for turn rate (top) and the trapezoid below for the
ball, both on the left hand screen very top.

http://www.pbase.com/image/24574624/original

Mike


"John H. Kay" wrote in message ...
Hi.

How do the new glass cockpits (Garmin or Avidyne) indicate rate of turn,
and also whether the plane is slipping or skidding?

I know we can do the simple rule of thumb sum for standard rate turns,
giving the approx. bank angle for the speed we're using, but we're all
trained to check the little wings and the ball for reassurance as part
of the scan in conventionally instrumented aircraft.

On any picture of these new screens, I can't see where there is an
indication of the rate of turn, although I think lack of co-ordination
may manifest itself by another pointer coming away from the main one on
the AI. No article I've read, so far, on these screens mentions these
points.

A better image, but of the Avidyne Entegra, is here (about a megabyte):

http://www.avidyne.com/HighRez/P_Entegra_PFD.jpg

The black and white pyramid is the "ball" - when the top and bottom are
aligned then you're in trim.

I'm flying a (rental) Cirrus SR20 with this system these days, and
although I absolutely love the Avidyne/Garmin system I'm still not used
to this representation of coordination - it doesn't lend itself to "step
on the ball" very well. That said, and I keep forgetting this when I'm
flying, the SR20's backup AI has a conventional ball-tube mounted on it.

Dave Blevins

On 29 Dec 2003 05:31:09 -0800, (Mike Long) wrote:

Under the arc at the topmost part of the screen (the arc is the rate
of turn indicator), you will see a small trapezoid. This is the "ball
indicator" and shows skids and slips by moving in the appropriate
direction. It's in a very logical place and is an easy-to-monitor
indication.

This photo cut off for some reason but you can still see the white
reference point for turn rate (top) and the trapezoid below for the
ball, both on the left hand screen very top.

http://www.pbase.com/image/24574624/original

Here is a better photo of the PFD. By the way, I did not take the
photo so please excuse the copyright notice to my name - I have not
found a way to delete it as pbase puts it automatically on my bird and
landscape photo's (which are mine). This shot is from Cessna's
library.

http://www.pbase.com/image/24595911

Mike

(Mike Long) wrote in message . com...
Under the arc at the topmost part of the screen (the arc is the rate
of turn indicator), you will see a small trapezoid. This is the "ball
indicator" and shows skids and slips by moving in the appropriate
direction. It's in a very logical place and is an easy-to-monitor
indication.

This photo cut off for some reason but you can still see the white
reference point for turn rate (top) and the trapezoid below for the
ball, both on the left hand screen very top.

http://www.pbase.com/image/24574624/original

Mike


"John H. Kay" wrote in message ...
Hi.

How do the new glass cockpits (Garmin or Avidyne) indicate rate of turn,
and also whether the plane is slipping or skidding?

I know we can do the simple rule of thumb sum for standard rate turns,
giving the approx. bank angle for the speed we're using, but we're all
trained to check the little wings and the ball for reassurance as part
of the scan in conventionally instrumented aircraft.

On any picture of these new screens, I can't see where there is an
indication of the rate of turn, although I think lack of co-ordination
may manifest itself by another pointer coming away from the main one on
the AI. No article I've read, so far, on these screens mentions these
points.