Safety pilot in and out of IMC

I want to go fly some approaches (and a hold) on Sunday. I know from
experience that it's likely that the ceilings will be too high to do any
meaningful approaches in IMC, but high enough that I might be in IMC
during the vectors to the approach or at the hold. I figured I could take
along a safety pilot, and then when I break out on the approach tell him
he's acting PIC while I put on my foggles and complete the approach, and
then when we go back into the clouds on the missed take off the foggles
(or not) and become PIC again.

Has anybody else done this? Is it smart? Safe? Legal?


--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
"As Canadian as possible, under the circumstances"

Paul Tomblin wrote:
I want to go fly some approaches (and a hold) on Sunday. I know from
experience that it's likely that the ceilings will be too high to do any
meaningful approaches in IMC, but high enough that I might be in IMC
during the vectors to the approach or at the hold. I figured I could take
along a safety pilot, and then when I break out on the approach tell him
he's acting PIC while I put on my foggles and complete the approach, and
then when we go back into the clouds on the missed take off the foggles
(or not) and become PIC again.

Has anybody else done this? Is it smart? Safe? Legal?


It seems reasonable. However, why not leave the foggles on all
the time. It's redundant in IMC, but saves you having to fiddle
with them.

There's no need to tell the other pilot to be "PIC", just ask him
to take the controls. There's a difference betweeen operating the
controls and serving as pilot in command.

The FAA rule on the matter is that you gotta have a safety pilot
if you've got the foggles on. Since he's along for the ride anyhow,
he can just stare out into the soup in until you break out into visual
conditions.

Yeah, but there's nothing like those funky shadows you get when you're in
the clouds...

Marco Leon

"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
...
It seems reasonable. However, why not leave the foggles on all
the time. It's redundant in IMC, but saves you having to fiddle
with them.

In a previous article, Ron Natalie said:
Paul Tomblin wrote:
during the vectors to the approach or at the hold. I figured I could take
along a safety pilot, and then when I break out on the approach tell him
he's acting PIC while I put on my foggles and complete the approach, and
It seems reasonable. However, why not leave the foggles on all
the time. It's redundant in IMC, but saves you having to fiddle
with them.

Good point.

There's no need to tell the other pilot to be "PIC", just ask him
to take the controls. There's a difference betweeen operating the
controls and serving as pilot in command.

I don't want him to take the controls. I thought that the non-instrument
rated safety pilot in VMC is acting PIC (and both of us can log PIC since
he's acting and I'm sole manipulator), but obviously he can't be acting
PIC when in IMC.


--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
I stayed up all night playing poker with tarot cards. I got a full
house and four people died. -- Steven Wright

Paul Tomblin wrote:


There's no need to tell the other pilot to be "PIC", just ask him
to take the controls. There's a difference betweeen operating the
controls and serving as pilot in command.


I don't want him to take the controls. I thought that the non-instrument
rated safety pilot in VMC is acting PIC (and both of us can log PIC since
he's acting and I'm sole manipulator), but obviously he can't be acting
PIC when in IMC.

It is up to you two to decide WHO is the pilot in command. He can't
be PIC on an instrument plan (regardless of whether it is VMC or IMC).

Paul Tomblin wrote:

In a previous article, Ron Natalie said:

Paul Tomblin wrote:

during the vectors to the approach or at the hold. I figured I could take
along a safety pilot, and then when I break out on the approach tell him
he's acting PIC while I put on my foggles and complete the approach, and

It seems reasonable. However, why not leave the foggles on all
the time. It's redundant in IMC, but saves you having to fiddle
with them.


Good point.


There's no need to tell the other pilot to be "PIC", just ask him
to take the controls. There's a difference betweeen operating the
controls and serving as pilot in command.


I don't want him to take the controls. I thought that the non-instrument
rated safety pilot in VMC is acting PIC (and both of us can log PIC since
he's acting and I'm sole manipulator), but obviously he can't be acting
PIC when in IMC.



I'd have to go back and check the regs to be sure, but I don't recall
that the safety pilot has to act as PIC or even should do so.


Matt

On Fri, 03 Dec 2004 18:03:16 -0500, Matt Whiting
wrote:

I'd have to go back and check the regs to be sure, but I don't recall
that the safety pilot has to act as PIC or even should do so.

Your recollection is correct. The safety pilot does not even have to be
qualified to act as PIC in VFR conditions!


--ron

Ron Rosenfeld wrote:
On Fri, 03 Dec 2004 18:03:16 -0500, Matt Whiting
wrote:


I'd have to go back and check the regs to be sure, but I don't recall
that the safety pilot has to act as PIC or even should do so.


Your recollection is correct. The safety pilot does not even have to be
qualified to act as PIC in VFR conditions!


The don't even need to be qualified to act as PIC in *ANY* conditions (unless
they are PIC). All it takes is category and class (and type if appropriate)
and a medical.

On Fri, 03 Dec 2004 18:03:16 -0500, Matt Whiting
wrote:

I'd have to go back and check the regs to be sure, but I don't recall
that the safety pilot has to act as PIC or even should do so.

Your recollection is correct. The safety pilot does not even have to be
qualified to act as PIC under VFR!

--ron

On Fri, 3 Dec 2004 15:15:44 +0000 (UTC), (Paul
Tomblin) wrote:

I thought that the non-instrument rated safety pilot in VMC is acting PIC

That is incorrect. The safety pilot does not even have to be qualified to
act as PIC under VFR! For example, the legal safety pilot may not have the
appropriate endorsements to act as PIC in the aircraft you are using.

(and both of us can log PIC since he's acting and I'm sole manipulator)

It is possible to arrange for that to happen, but there is no requirement.



--ron