What do you do in the real world?

Last night I flew from SJC to VNY. To my astonishment I was cleared
vectors to SNS, then direct VNY (despite having filed a more standard
routing) at 9000 feet. I knew perfectly well that the routing was going
to change because I've done that route a zillion times, and indeed, near
Bakersfield they switched me over to the standard LHS, LYNXX8 arrival,
followed by vectors to the ILS RWY 16R.

My question is: what should I have done if I'd been in IMC and lost comm
before they changed my routing? By the book I should have continued to
fly my clearance, which would have run me into a mountain around GMN, so
that's probably not the right answer. Viable possibilities seem to
include:

1. Divert (or climb) just enough to avoid the terrain around GMN, fly
to VNY, and commence an approach from there.

2. As above, but vector myself for the ILS before reaching VNY.

3&4 - as above but fly to LHS and the LYNXX8 arrival.

5. Divert to the nearest airport with an IAP.

My aircraft is /G so I know pretty much exactly where I am at all times.

rg

References:

LYNXX8 arrival:
http://www.airnav.com/depart?http://.../00067LYNXX.PD
F

ILS RWY 16R approach:
http://www.airnav.com/depart?http://.../00552I16R.PDF

On Sat, 10 Mar 2007 00:03:57 -0800, Ron Garret
wrote:

Last night I flew from SJC to VNY. To my astonishment I was cleared
vectors to SNS, then direct VNY (despite having filed a more standard
routing) at 9000 feet. I knew perfectly well that the routing was going
to change because I've done that route a zillion times, and indeed, near
Bakersfield they switched me over to the standard LHS, LYNXX8 arrival,
followed by vectors to the ILS RWY 16R.

My question is: what should I have done if I'd been in IMC and lost comm
before they changed my routing? By the book I should have continued to
fly my clearance, which would have run me into a mountain around GMN, so
that's probably not the right answer. Viable possibilities seem to
include:

There's only one. You fly it as last cleared.
You arrive at the expected time as the expected place.
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Roger writes:

There's only one. You fly it as last cleared.
You arrive at the expected time as the expected place.

Even if the expected place is a mountainside? He mentioned that his last
clearance would have sent him into a mountain eventually. What do you do
then? I'm curious, too.

--
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On Sat, 10 Mar 2007 00:03:57 -0800, Ron Garret
wrote:

Last night I flew from SJC to VNY. To my astonishment I was cleared
vectors to SNS, then direct VNY (despite having filed a more standard
routing) at 9000 feet. I knew perfectly well that the routing was going
to change because I've done that route a zillion times, and indeed, near
Bakersfield they switched me over to the standard LHS, LYNXX8 arrival,
followed by vectors to the ILS RWY 16R.

My question is: what should I have done if I'd been in IMC and lost comm
before they changed my routing? By the book I should have continued to
fly my clearance, which would have run me into a mountain around GMN, so
that's probably not the right answer. Viable possibilities seem to
include:

1. Divert (or climb) just enough to avoid the terrain around GMN, fly
to VNY, and commence an approach from there.

2. As above, but vector myself for the ILS before reaching VNY.

3&4 - as above but fly to LHS and the LYNXX8 arrival.

5. Divert to the nearest airport with an IAP.

My aircraft is /G so I know pretty much exactly where I am at all times.

rg


"By the book", the route you fly should be the last clearance.

I don't understand, however, why you would run into a mountain if you are
following the altitude rules of the "lost-comm" regulations. Is your
aircraft not able to climb to the minimum IFR altitude for your route? If
that is the case, you have an emergency situation and can do whatever you
need to do.

Real world: I'm not familiar with your area. I would squawk 7600 and,
depending on my location, probably fly that "usual" clearance. Once ATC
notes that you have lost comm, they'll try to figure out what you're doing
and should be protecting all the approaches at VNY.
Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

On Sat, 10 Mar 2007 11:08:26 +0100, Mxsmanic
wrote:


Even if the expected place is a mountainside? He mentioned that his last
clearance would have sent him into a mountain eventually. What do you do
then? I'm curious, too.

You still fly the assigned route at the highest of the last assigned
altitude (or any expected altitude at the expected time) or the
minimum altitude for the route.

On Sat, 10 Mar 2007 06:51:48 -0500, Ron Rosenfeld
wrote:

Is your
aircraft not able to climb to the minimum IFR altitude for your route? If
that is the case, you have an emergency situation and can do whatever you
need to do.

You might have to explain why you accepted the route if you knew you
could not fly it.

ArtP writes:

You might have to explain why you accepted the route if you knew you
could not fly it.

Many routes will eventually intersect terrain if there are mountains nearby.
Nevertheless, you might well accept the route if you expect to be given a new
heading or altitude before you get near terrain. If your radio fails,
however, the situation changes.

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"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
ArtP writes:

You might have to explain why you accepted the route if you knew you
could not fly it.

Many routes will eventually intersect terrain if there are mountains
nearby.
Nevertheless, you might well accept the route if you expect to be given a
new
heading or altitude before you get near terrain. If your radio fails,
however, the situation changes.

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You can't file or accept a route you can't fly just because you're sure of a
re-route. You have to assume that you will lose comm shortly after takeoff
and fly the whole thing, as filed, minimim altitudes included.

--
-------------------------------
Travis
Lake N3094P
PWK

Travis Marlatte wrote:

You can't file or accept a route you can't fly just because you're sure of a
re-route. You have to assume that you will lose comm shortly after takeoff
and fly the whole thing, as filed, minimim altitudes included.


You're arguing IFR with someone who never leaves his bedroom.

Travis Marlatte writes:

You can't file or accept a route you can't fly just because you're sure of a
re-route.

Sure you can. Aircraft do it all the time. For example, you can be assigned
a route and altitude from the West Coast (of the U.S.) that will take you
right into the side of a mountain if you continue on it long enough; but you
accept it anyway because you know that ATC will change your heading and
altitude long before that happens.

You have to assume that you will lose comm shortly after takeoff
and fly the whole thing, as filed, minimim altitudes included.

But what if you are given vectors and altitude well after take-off, and these
will _eventually_ lead you into a mountain, and you lose communications before
ATC can change them? Do you return to your original flight plan, no matter
what kind of altitude or course changes are required? Do you fly the last
vectors you were given, and veer away from them only when it becomes unsafe to
fly them (and which way do you go?)? What do you do?

If you receive vectors very different from your filed route in crowded
airspace and you then lose your radio, trying to return to your originally
filed route might be dangerous. At the same time, you can't indefinitely
follow vectors that will take you into terrain. If you follow the latter
vectors, at some point you must deviate from them to avoid terrain--which way
do you go then?

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