CFI Spin Requirements

In preparing for the CFI I was surprised to learn that many CFIs have
never done a spin. I wondered how this could be, until I carefully
reviewed the Section 61.105-107

There's no *requirement* to actually spin -- only that the applicant
exhibits knowledge of "(11) Stall awareness, spin entry, spins, and
spin recovery techniques for the airplane and glider category
ratings;"

and has "(1) Receive a logbook endorsement from an authorized
instructor indicating that the applicant is competent and possesses
instructional proficiency in stall awareness, spin entry, spins, and
spin recovery procedures after providing the applicant with flight
training in those training areas in an airplane or glider, as
appropriate, that is certificated for spins; and

(2) Demonstrate instructional proficiency in stall awareness, spin
entry, spins, and spin recovery procedures. However, upon presentation
of the endorsement specified in paragraph (i)(1) of this section an
examiner may accept that endorsement as satisfactory evidence of
instructional proficiency in stall awareness, spin entry, spins, and
spin recovery procedures for the practical test, provided that the
practical test is not a retest as a result of the applicant failing
the previous test for deficiencies in the knowledge or skill of stall
awareness, spin entry, spins, or spin recovery instructional
procedures. If the retest is a result of deficiencies in the ability
of an applicant to demonstrate knowledge or skill of stall awareness,
spin entry, spins, or spin recovery instructional procedures, the
examiner must test the person on stall awareness, spin entry, spins,
and spin recovery instructional procedures in an airplane or glider,
as appropriate, that is certificated for spins;"

So technically .. if one found a complicit CFI, one could be a
Certified Flight Instructor with absolutely no real experience
actually entering or recovering from a spin.

This squares with some (scary) things I've heard regarding "90 day
wonder" CFI/IIs who have never been in IMC, never fully stalled, and
never used an E-6B (electronic or manual).

Dan

On Feb 20, 11:26*am, " wrote:
In preparing for the CFI I was surprised to learn that many CFIs have
never done a spin. I wondered how this could be, until I carefully
reviewed the Section 61.105-107

There's no *requirement* to actually spin

Sure there is: 61.817b1xi (Flight Proficiency) requires a CFI
applicant to receive and log ground and flight training in a number of
specific areas, including spins.

To say that you can satisfy the flight-training requirement for spins
without actually ever spinning is like saying you can satisfy the
flight-training requirement for stalls without actually ever stalling.

On Feb 20, 12:58 pm, wrote:

There's no *requirement* to actually spin

Sure there is: 61.817b1xi (Flight Proficiency) requires a CFI
applicant to receive and log ground and flight training in a number of
specific areas, including spins.

To say that you can satisfy the flight-training requirement for spins
without actually ever spinning is like saying you can satisfy the
flight-training requirement for stalls without actually ever stalling.

That's my point -- the language is ambiguous, and some have taken
advantage of that ambiguity.

"Receive a logbook endorsement from an authorized instructor
indicating that the applicant is competent and possesses instructional
proficiency in stall awareness, spin entry, spins, and spin recovery
procedures after providing the applicant with flight training in those
training areas in an airplane..." is not the same as "The applicant
shall demonstrate instructional proficiency in recovery from a fully
developed (minimum two turn) spin to the right and to the left..."

The CFRs are VERY explicit in other areas (number of takeoffs and
landings to full stop, number of approach, etc), but seem
intentionally ambiguous here.

Dan

wrote in message
...
On Feb 20, 12:58 pm, wrote:

There's no *requirement* to actually spin

Sure there is: 61.817b1xi (Flight Proficiency) requires a CFI
applicant to receive and log ground and flight training in a number of
specific areas, including spins.

To say that you can satisfy the flight-training requirement for spins
without actually ever spinning is like saying you can satisfy the
flight-training requirement for stalls without actually ever stalling.

That's my point -- the language is ambiguous, and some have taken
advantage of that ambiguity.

"Receive a logbook endorsement from an authorized instructor
indicating that the applicant is competent and possesses instructional
proficiency in stall awareness, spin entry, spins, and spin recovery
procedures after providing the applicant with flight training in those
training areas in an airplane..." is not the same as "The applicant
shall demonstrate instructional proficiency in recovery from a fully
developed (minimum two turn) spin to the right and to the left..."

The CFRs are VERY explicit in other areas (number of takeoffs and
landings to full stop, number of approach, etc), but seem
intentionally ambiguous here.

and has "(1) Receive a logbook endorsement from an authorized
instructor indicating that the applicant is competent and possesses
instructional proficiency in stall awareness, spin entry, spins, and
spin recovery procedures after providing the applicant with flight
training in those training areas in an airplane or glider, as
appropriate, that is certificated for spins; and

You already posted the answer. "Provide flight training in those areas...in
an airplane...that is certified for spins;"

It sounds like you know a CFI that did not have to do spins to get his
certificate?

--

*H. Allen Smith*
WACO - We are all here, because we are not all there.

On Feb 20, 8:26*am, " wrote:
In preparing for the CFI I was surprised to learn that many CFIs have
never done a spin. I wondered how this could be, until I carefully
reviewed the Section 61.105-107

I'm trying to figure out if this is a real post or trolling. Are you
saying you actually, personally, know of a CFI who has never spun a
plane?

-Robert, CFII

On Feb 20, 2:40 pm, "Robert M. Gary" wrote:
On Feb 20, 8:26 am, " wrote:

In preparing for the CFI I was surprised to learn that many CFIs have
never done a spin. I wondered how this could be, until I carefully
reviewed the Section 61.105-107

I'm trying to figure out if this is a real post or trolling. Are you
saying you actually, personally, know of a CFI who has never spun a
plane?

-Robert, CFII

Yes, I do.

Don't be so surprised.

Dan

wrote in message
...
On Feb 20, 2:40 pm, "Robert M. Gary" wrote:
On Feb 20, 8:26 am, " wrote:

In preparing for the CFI I was surprised to learn that many CFIs have
never done a spin. I wondered how this could be, until I carefully
reviewed the Section 61.105-107

I'm trying to figure out if this is a real post or trolling. Are you
saying you actually, personally, know of a CFI who has never spun a
plane?

-Robert, CFII

Yes, I do.

Don't be so surprised.

Dan

He took the Bill O'Reilly course.
BobF. CFII/ATP

On Feb 20, 3:09 pm, "Bob F." wrote:

He took the Bill O'Reilly course.
BobF. CFII/ATP

I don't pretend to know what that means...

Dan

wrote in message
...
On Feb 20, 3:09 pm, "Bob F." wrote:

He took the Bill O'Reilly course.
BobF. CFII/ATP

I don't pretend to know what that means...

Dan

Bill O'Reily - The "No Spin Zone"
--

*H. Allen Smith*
WACO - We are all here, because we are not all there.

Allen wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Feb 20, 3:09 pm, "Bob F." wrote:
He took the Bill O'Reilly course.
BobF. CFII/ATP
I don't pretend to know what that means...

Dan

Bill O'Reily - The "No Spin Zone"

mxsmanic even spun his sim a few times.