F-102... German Origin

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/annex/an51.htm

.... more "borrowed" German-tech courtesy of Dr. Alexander Lippisch.
From the Lippisch DM-1/P.13 we got the XF-92, F-102, F-106, and B-58.

Rob

"robert arndt" wrote in message
om...
http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/annex/an51.htm

... more "borrowed" German-tech courtesy of Dr. Alexander Lippisch.
From the Lippisch DM-1/P.13 we got the XF-92, F-102, F-106, and B-58.

Rob

On that basis the V-2 was built using borrowed US technology.

'Goddard was ahead of us all '
Werner Von Braun

Keith

'Goddard was ahead of us all '
Werner Von Braun


Typical German understatement.

"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message ...
"robert arndt" wrote in message
om...
http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/annex/an51.htm

... more "borrowed" German-tech courtesy of Dr. Alexander Lippisch.
From the Lippisch DM-1/P.13 we got the XF-92, F-102, F-106, and B-58.

Rob

On that basis the V-2 was built using borrowed US technology.

'Goddard was ahead of us all '
Werner Von Braun

Keith

Right... Germany got it's rocketry from Oberth, not Goddard:
http://www.oberth-museum.org/museum_e.htm

BTW, the Allies had no equivalent to the V-2 and most every other
German missile design.
Postwar it was German tech that made the US and USSR superpowers...
unless you still believe a lone bomber-dropped A-bomb could sustain
that status. As a matter of fact 85% of our current weapon systems are
derived from technology of the Second and Third Reichs.
Then there is also the space programs of the US and USSR
It is so unbelievable to read this nonsense about the "USA invented
everything" crap. If it wasn't for Germany and two World Wars (which
you guys hate so much) the US would just be some second-rate regional
power still playing games with Mexico and central America.
Get a clue.

Rob

"robert arndt" wrote in message
om...
"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message
...
"robert arndt" wrote in message
om...
http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/annex/an51.htm

... more "borrowed" German-tech courtesy of Dr. Alexander Lippisch.
From the Lippisch DM-1/P.13 we got the XF-92, F-102, F-106, and B-58.

Rob

On that basis the V-2 was built using borrowed US technology.

'Goddard was ahead of us all '
Werner Von Braun

Keith

Right... Germany got it's rocketry from Oberth, not Goddard:
http://www.oberth-museum.org/museum_e.htm

BTW, the Allies had no equivalent to the V-2 and most every other
German missile design.
Postwar it was German tech that made the US and USSR superpowers...
unless you still believe a lone bomber-dropped A-bomb could sustain
that status. As a matter of fact 85% of our current weapon systems are
derived from technology of the Second and Third Reichs.
Then there is also the space programs of the US and USSR
It is so unbelievable to read this nonsense about the "USA invented
everything" crap. If it wasn't for Germany and two World Wars (which
you guys hate so much) the US would just be some second-rate regional
power still playing games with Mexico and central America.

And if it were not for that second World War (which you apparently don't
hate in and of itself, instead just not particularly caring for the outcome)
we'd be goosestepping and sending our special students to the ovens instead
of special education classes in public schools. Thank goodness things did
not turn out as you would have hoped.

Brooks

"Kevin Brooks" wrote:

And if it were not for that second World War (which you apparently don't
hate in and of itself, instead just not particularly caring for the outcome)
we'd be goosestepping and sending our special students to the ovens instead
of special education classes in public schools. Thank goodness things did
not turn out as you would have hoped.

Brooks

Still ****ed at having to take the short bus, eh? Get over it.

Grantland

In article ,
(robert arndt) wrote:

"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message
...

'Goddard was ahead of us all '
Werner Von Braun

Right... Germany got it's rocketry from Oberth, not Goddard:
http://www.oberth-museum.org/museum_e.htm

....and Oberth got his from Goddard.

Oberth's first liquid rocket engine came about fifteen years after
Goddard's first patent for a liquid fueled rocket motor, and three years
after Goddard's first successful flight.

Gyroscopic control, steering through vanes in the exhaust, gimbaled
thrust... Goddard was there first, and Oberth and the rest of the
Germans followed in his footsteps some years later.

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

In article ,
(robert arndt) wrote:

"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message
...
"robert arndt" wrote in message
om...
http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/annex/an51.htm

... more "borrowed" German-tech courtesy of Dr. Alexander Lippisch.
From the Lippisch DM-1/P.13 we got the XF-92, F-102, F-106, and B-58.

Rob

On that basis the V-2 was built using borrowed US technology.

'Goddard was ahead of us all '
Werner Von Braun

Keith

Right... Germany got it's rocketry from Oberth, not Goddard:
http://www.oberth-museum.org/museum_e.htm

BTW, the Allies had no equivalent to the V-2 and most every other
German missile design.
Postwar it was German tech that made the US and USSR superpowers...
unless you still believe a lone bomber-dropped A-bomb could sustain
that status. As a matter of fact 85% of our current weapon systems are
derived from technology of the Second and Third Reichs.

Airplanes? no.

Micro electronics? no.

Radar? No.

Rocketry? See Robert Goddard -- Von Braun & Co. developed his concepts.
Atomic bombs? The stupid Hitler & Co. evicted their best theoretical
physicists (Einstein & Co.) to the US. Thank you!

Aerial refueling? no.

Satellites? Developed from Von Braun & Co.

Then there is also the space programs of the US and USSR
It is so unbelievable to read this nonsense about the "USA invented
everything" crap. If it wasn't for Germany and two World Wars (which
you guys hate so much) the US would just be some second-rate regional
power still playing games with Mexico and central America.
Get a clue.


It is fortunate that the Germans had such a bunch of lunatics for
leaders that they lost the wars they started. If they hadn't started the
wars, they MIGHT have been successful!

Orval Fairbairn wrote in message .. .
In article ,
(robert arndt) wrote:

"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message
...
"robert arndt" wrote in message
om...
http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/annex/an51.htm

... more "borrowed" German-tech courtesy of Dr. Alexander Lippisch.
From the Lippisch DM-1/P.13 we got the XF-92, F-102, F-106, and B-58.

Rob

On that basis the V-2 was built using borrowed US technology.

'Goddard was ahead of us all '
Werner Von Braun

Keith

Right... Germany got it's rocketry from Oberth, not Goddard:
http://www.oberth-museum.org/museum_e.htm

BTW, the Allies had no equivalent to the V-2 and most every other
German missile design.
Postwar it was German tech that made the US and USSR superpowers...
unless you still believe a lone bomber-dropped A-bomb could sustain
that status. As a matter of fact 85% of our current weapon systems are
derived from technology of the Second and Third Reichs.

Airplanes? no.

There were many inventors from many nations on the way to inventing
the aircraft in the fields of aerodynamics and propulsion: from Caley,
Lilienthal, the Stinson Victorian aerial steamer etc. The Wrights got
there first only just. Several people got there in 1904 and 1905 and
several may have done earlier. Despite Amerians being most probably
first it is inevitable that someone would have done so independantly
in several other nations. An Englishman, Frenchman and German would
have followed soon.



Micro electronics? no.

That certainly belongs to Noyce though there was some German
transistor work.

Konrad Zuse quite independantly invented the computer and even a high
level language. Most of his Z series machines used relays (thus
making them more reliable and more funtional than valve machines) and
they had floating point arithmetic and they did work on a valve
powered FLAK computer.



Radar? No.

A German called Christian Husselmeyer apparently invented radar in
1903 after witnessing loss of life on a barge that collided in a
fogged up Rhine River.

German radar was well developed quite independantly before WW2. It was
superior to British radar in most ways. Part of the problem was that
the Freya and Wurzburg were so good that they encouraged the Germans
to neglect microwave radar developement. Wurzburg even used Doppler
to overcome window and chaff.


http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/ops/docs/97-0609F.pdf:
DEFLATING BRITISH RADAR MYTHS OF WORLD WAR II
A Research Paper
Presented To
The Research Department
Air Command and Staff College
In Partial Fulfillment of the Graduation Requirements of ACSC
by Maj. Gregory C. Clark
March 1997

4
Incredibly, in 1904 a German inventor, Christian Hülsmeyer, was
granted a British patent for a telemobiloscope, which was a
'hertzian-wave projecting and receiving apparatus…to give
warning of the resence of a metallic body such as a ship or a train.'
On the morning of 10 May 1904, at the Rhine bridge in Cologne, he
successfully demonstrated his apparatus. With rave reviews from the
press, technical representatives from various shipping companies
observed a convincing display of this new technology. He proved that a
ship fitted with this system of transmitter and receiver could locate
another ship and inform the captain of the approach of another vessel
up to 5 kilometers
away. The shipping company representatives were enthusiastic, but
hesitant to invest in this new technology and afraid of violating
previous agreements with the Marconi Company. The shipping companies
had trouble differentiating between wireless directional finding
versus the idea of radio detection. In their minds it seemed to be
spending twice for the same results. Hülsmeyer also sought the
financial backing of the German Navy only to be rebuffed by Admiral
von Tirpitz's reply of, 'Not interested. My people have better ideas!'
Only after a personal expenditure of 25,000 Marks and approaching
bankruptcy did he abandon his idea to pursue more financially
rewarding work.6
What is important about this is the fact that as early as 1904 the
concept of radar was demonstrated and patented. Hülsmeyer’s
techniques revealed modern concepts which would not be rediscovered
for another thirty years. His idea of mounting the assembly on the
foremast of a ship to measure the range and bearing of an object did
not reappear until the Second World War. It is also interesting to
reflect how this invention would have changed history in the instance
of the loss of the passenger ship Titanic and the World War I naval
battle of Jutland.7

http://groups.google.com.au/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&safe=off&threadm=9iv8uk%24dsq%241%40nntp6.u.wash ington.edu&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26safe%3Doff%26q%3Dflak%2Bpredictor%2Bproximity% 26btnG%3DGoogle%2BSearch

The British received as an invaluable gift a well-made tube, a part
of an early attempted iteration of such a fuze, which measured
electrical
potentials and could serve to trigger a detonator if the potential
detected were high enough. The gift came as part of what came to be
known as
the Oslo Report, so-named because that was the city in which a German
engineer
(IIRC) disaffected with the Nazi regime, used to transmit this
remarkable and
priceless document to the British. In it were described all of the
most advanced technologies then under consideration by the Hitlerites,
including the proximity fuse, in great detail.





Rocketry? See Robert Goddard -- Von Braun & Co. developed his concepts.
Atomic bombs? The stupid Hitler & Co. evicted their best theoretical
physicists (Einstein & Co.) to the US. Thank you!

Einstein was a bit of a celebrity myth. There is not much that he
actually developed at all. E = mc^2 was elucidated in public and
published by an Italian several years before Einstein (who spoke
Italian as his father was an Nth Italian Jew) and his polio crippled
serbian wife used Bernhard Rieman's Tensor calculus to put his
theories back together again after Heisenberg shot them down. Between
Maz Plank, Michelson & Morley, Maxwell, Rieman, Fitzgerald & Lorenz
it's impossible to see that Einstein did anything but clever
plagiarism and self publicity. He was littlemore than an ethnophobic
zionist in my eyes.

Goddard's work was excellent but even after sponsorship by Daniel
Guggenheim it seems to have gone nowhere.

The use of gyro-steered vains on the rocketry motor seems and
intuitively obvious development of the Auto-Pilot.

I think its more a case of parrallel development rather than
'copying'. von Braun't socieity for spaceflight goes back to the
early 20s afterall.

One invention the V2 people did come up with was the PIGA (pendulating
integration gyroscopic accelerometer) which was accurate enough to
provide for inertial navigation.




Aerial refueling? no.

The Germans mande several succesfull aerial refuelings during WW2
though they rejected them as impracticable for attacks on the USA.

What made aerial refueling a success was the developement of the jet
engine and the elimination of the prop collision issue. You might
have seen Me 262s aerial refueling perhaps from a probe and drogue fed
from a whatever big aircraft hr Germans had but certainly never a P51
and and very unlikely a P38. What made aerial refueling practicable
on a P80 from a B29 made it practicable from a Me 262 from a He 177 or
Ju 352 or Ju 390



Satellites? Developed from Von Braun & Co.

Then there is also the space programs of the US and USSR
It is so unbelievable to read this nonsense about the "USA invented
everything" crap. If it wasn't for Germany and two World Wars (which
you guys hate so much) the US would just be some second-rate regional
power still playing games with Mexico and central America.
Get a clue.


It is fortunate that the Germans had such a bunch of lunatics for
leaders that they lost the wars they started. If they hadn't started the
wars, they MIGHT have been successful!


A favourable winter, rather than the worst winter in 100 years, in the
Soviet Union may have changed all of that.

Possibley the biggest mistake they made was the Hitler dictate that no
developments that could not be completed within 2 years should be
preceded with.
This seems to have cost them their excellent microwave development
team in 1940 and the development of the proximity fuse (both were put
on ice).

The dictate may have been sensible however: Germany and the Axis were
thoroughly outnumbered and out resourced and devoting resources and
engineers on future developements may have been flawed as those
resources were best applied to immediate issues. To the Axis it was
win now or face inevevitable defeat in a war of attrition that the
Allies would win on the basis of superior resources.

The Germans certainly made breakthrough reasearch in ballistic,
rocketry guidence, jet propulsion, stealth (radar aborbant paints and
structures on sub conning towers and the Go 229 aircraft) swept wing
aerodynamics (Busmann in 1930s). Even in doctrine the Germans were
"right" in the long run (though utter wrong in the short run) as they
anticipated that passive sensor technology would be necessary as any
emiter would be detected and attacked.

From: (robert arndt)


If it wasn't for Germany and two World Wars (which
you guys hate so much) the US would just be some second-rate regional
power still playing games with Mexico and central America.
Get a clue.

Rob

"You guys?" If you love the Germans so much how come you never emigrated to
Germany? Could it be because they won't let you fly your Nazi flags outside
your home?

How come when the Nazis themselves credit Americans, as von braun did, and
other nations you are unable to admit it?

Name ONE thing Lippisch invented. The flying wing? Lilienthal developed them as
gliders in the 1800s. Oh gee, he's German too so that doesn't count. Actually
almost every one of the early glider designers, including the Wrights, made at
least one flying wing. Ailerons? Try Glenn Curtiss.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired