Correct way of holding the stick during ground roll?

Very beginning pilot here (again).....and I am confused about the
appropriate way of holding the stick during the ground roll prior to
take off.

In Thomas Knauff's Glider Basics, he states (p.59, 2005 edition):
"....before signaling to proceed with the launch, the glider pilot
should set the elevator by holding the control stick at the
approximate position that will result in the proper angle of attack.
To do this, move the control stick the full allowable travel fore and
aft, and then find the mid-point, or neutral position. Move the
control stick back about 1/2 inch from this neutral position. This
will be very close to the optimum position for takeoff. Aircraft
designers build aircraft this way."

However, in Russell Holtz's Flight Training for Gliders, I see (p. 27,
2008 edition): "If the glider norally rests on its main wheel and tail
wheel, the stick should be held forward of neutral, so the as the
glider picks up speed, the tail wheel will rise off the ground."

I'm training in a Blanik L-23, which has a main wheel and a
tailwheel. Knauff makes no mention of whether to hold the stick
forward or aft depending on if the glider has a tail wheel or a nose
wheel, yet Holtz does.

(It's been three weeks since I've flown, and I can't remember what my
instructors did.)

For a glider with a tail wheel, which is correct?

--Michael

For a glider with a tail wheel, which is correct?

--Michael

Forward for a taildragger, to get the hockey puck (in the case of the
L23, other taildraggers have nice pneumatic tailwheels) off the ground
as soon as possible and begin 'flying' on one wheel. Stick back for a
nose dragger, to get the skid/nosewheel up asap. In both cases use
whatever amount of stick req to keep it balanced on the one wheel once
until the plane is actually ready to lift off...

Most gliders have a tailwheel... but the L23 is a taildragger. The
tailwheel on the nosedraggers is generally for ground handling.

-Paul

I like Paul's answer.. and that is how I instruct my students.
But the best answer is.. "What your instructor tells you".
BT

"sisu1a" wrote in message
...

For a glider with a tail wheel, which is correct?

--Michael

Forward for a taildragger, to get the hockey puck (in the case of the
L23, other taildraggers have nice pneumatic tailwheels) off the ground
as soon as possible and begin 'flying' on one wheel. Stick back for a
nose dragger, to get the skid/nosewheel up asap. In both cases use
whatever amount of stick req to keep it balanced on the one wheel once
until the plane is actually ready to lift off...

Most gliders have a tailwheel... but the L23 is a taildragger. The
tailwheel on the nosedraggers is generally for ground handling.

-Paul

My suggestioin would be stick forward to get the tail in the air. This
way, you are in control of the airplane. If you leave the tail in the
ground, the airplane will take off when it wants to, leaving you to react
to what it has just done. I believe your task is to make the airplane do
what you want it to do, and not to try to catch up with what it just did.

And if you were flying a nose dragger, I would start wit the stick back to
get the skid up off the ground.

The above assumes air tow for your launch method. Nose draggers and
winches often will require the stick be held full forward at the start of
launch. Why? High enough initial acceleration to change it to a tail
dragger!

My two cents, and I am NOT an instructor. So, you just got more advice
than you paid for.

Steve Leonard

Steve Leonard wrote:
My suggestioin would be stick forward to get the tail in the air. This
way, you are in control of the airplane. If you leave the tail in the
ground, the airplane will take off when it wants to, leaving you to react
to what it has just done. I believe your task is to make the airplane do
what you want it to do, and not to try to catch up with what it just did.

Steve's method is the commonly used one on a good runway surface (and a
cross wind is not a significant factor), as it's easier to control the
glider; however, keeping the tail on the ground is a standard method for
soft field takeoffs, when you want the main wheel weight reduced as fast
as possible. It may also be useful on a rough field, when you want to
get off the ground as soon as possible. It is the recommended method for
both situations in my ASH 26 E flight manual.


--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

* "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* Sections on Mode S, TPAS, ADS-B, Flarm, more

* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

I'm not sure Michael has an instructor. These are basic questions that
should be answered only by his instructor. Asking them should improve
the bonding and love that we all had with ours. It seems as if he is
learning to fly gliders thru the RAS site and I'm not sure that is a
good idea. Lets wait until after he groundloops his first glass ship
and we can all recommend the best way to remove the stain from his
shorts.
R

On May 4, 7:26*pm, hretting wrote:
I'm not sure Michael has an instructor. These are basic questions that
should be answered only by his instructor. Asking them should improve
the bonding and love that we all had with ours. It seems as if he is
learning to fly gliders thru the RAS site and I'm not sure that is a
good idea. Lets wait until after he groundloops his first glass ship
and we can all recommend the best way to remove the stain from his
shorts.
R

Henry is absolutely correct.
Communicate with your instructor and read your glider's Flight Manual.
Changing conditions may mean changing your technique, so strive to "Be
One with the Glider."

All the theory behind the above advice is probably correct, but
regardless of who is asking the question, the aircraft being flown,
etc, a simple instruction that is easy for the student to remember
and at the same time encourages the student to fly by reference and
react intuitively to the dynamics of the aircraft movement is:

Keep the wings level and the aircraft running on the wheel in line
with the launch direction. When flying speed is achieved allow the
aircraft to become airborne and assume the correct launch attitude.
This instruction applies to all launch methods and is relevant for any
glider no matter how the controls are rigged or mis-rigged or whether
the glider has a nose or tail wheel. If the student does not
understand these brief instructions then the student should probably
not be attempting the take off until a better understanding of how the
aircraft reacts to control inputs is attained. Put the stick here is
no more effective than turn in to land when you are over the little
house with the red roof.

I guess I am sold on this one as these are the instructions I received
when learning to fly in a mixed launch environment. I later learned a
similar lesson when being checked out for towing on a mixed fleet of
tow planes that had engines that rotated the props in different
directions. The answer to which rudder to favor during the take off
roll was and still is:

The one that keeps the aircraft rolling in a straight line.

For unusual conditions or aircraft the instructor only needs to advise
the student on the likely forces that may affect the take off to allow
the student to anticipate and carry out the necessary corrections.
Teaching flying by reference is what counts in the air and it no less
relevant on the ground.

Andy Gough

Henry is absolutely correct.
Communicate with your instructor and read your glider's Flight Manual.
Changing conditions may mean changing your technique, so strive to "Be
One with the Glider."


I'm visualizing the cover of your next book "Zen and the Art of Glider
Flying".

Tony

I have not read the thread but I clicked on because of your name and sure
enough it is funny.
see you soon.
Udo

At 00:26 05 May 2009, hretting wrote:
I'm not sure Michael has an instructor. These are basic questions that
should be answered only by his instructor. Asking them should improve
the bonding and love that we all had with ours. It seems as if he is
learning to fly gliders thru the RAS site and I'm not sure that is a
good idea. Lets wait until after he groundloops his first glass ship
and we can all recommend the best way to remove the stain from his
shorts.
R