Instrument Training at night? Good Idea or not?

"Mark T. Dame" wrote in :

In my training, I never experienced any vertigo or disorientation with
the foggles on, but I still experience it to this day in actual.

My experience is mostly the opposite - I hate being under the hood, and fly much worse.
Actual IMC is a piece of cake in comparison. YMMV.

I do most of my flying at night, over water, and it's all instrument flying, whether there
are clouds or not. In general, the air is smoother at night, so you'll get much less
turbulence, and thus the aircraft is easier to control. I also find that an ILS approach to
minimums is easier in the dark, because the approach and runway lights are easier to make
out without sunlight scattering everything in the fog. If I have to fly an ILS with 100'
overcast and 1/4 mile vis, I want to do it when it's very dark. I've done it at night and
in the daylight, and I prefer the dark. It does take a different mindset to fly at night,
but that's mostly for takeoff and landing. The enroute flying is pretty much the same, and
I don't think the risk is that much higher at night, disregarding an engine failure. An
engine failure in a single-engine airplane at night is going to be dangerous, no matter
whether you're practicing instruments or just out for fun.

--
Regards,

Stan

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither
liberty nor safety." B. Franklin

"Stan Gosnell" wrote in message
...
In my training, I never experienced any vertigo or disorientation with
the foggles on, but I still experience it to this day in actual.
My experience is mostly the opposite - I hate being under the hood, and
fly much worse.
Actual IMC is a piece of cake in comparison. YMMV.

Whether or not you experience negative feelings such as discomfort or
vertigo in artificial IMC, the fact we all seem to concur on is that there's
nothing quite like real IMC. I've used two types of foggles (both a pain in
the backside, particularly if you have to wear glasses to see correctly) and
I've flown an aircraft with custom-made screens that prevent the pilot (but
not the instructor) from seeing outside. Even with such screens, though, the
fact remains that because there are louvres cut so the instructor can keep a
lookout, if you have half-decent peripheral vision there's a good chance
you'll see a horizon there somewhere, out of the corner of your eye, thus
failing to simulate the whole spatial-disorientation thing you're trying to
achieve.

Don't get me wrong, it's handy to have artificial IMC available - not least
because Sod's law dictates that when you want to do an IMC lesson, there's
never a decent cloud around when you want one. But you absolutely must do
some real IMC, or you stand a good chance of being bitten the first time you
do it for real on your own.

The week before I was to do my IMC test, my instructor sent another student
and me with one of his colleagues (it's good to have a check-ride with
someone independent) to fly from my home airfield to another about 60 miles
away. I flew there and did an NDB approach, the other guy flew back and had
the luxury of an ILS. Cloudbase was 1,200 feet with the tops at about 3,500
feet; we departed, climbed through the cloud, flew on top following the
navaids (just us and something big and grey going into Mildenhall - such a
neat experience), then did the approach through cloud. Not only did it
convince the other instructor that I stood a chance of passing my test, but
more importantly it made me think: "Hey, this stuff really does work - if
you do it like it says on the plate, there's a runway at the end of it".

D.

Stan Gosnell wrote:

"Mark T. Dame" wrote in :


In my training, I never experienced any vertigo or disorientation with
the foggles on, but I still experience it to this day in actual.

My experience is mostly the opposite - I hate being under the hood, and fly much worse.
Actual IMC is a piece of cake in comparison. YMMV.

I fly better in actual than under the hood as well and much prefer it,
but I don't get vertigo under the hood, whereas I will frequently get it
in actual. Maybe that's why I fly better in actual: I'm expecting
vertigo, so I pay more attention. (-:

I have a friend who gets vertigo so bad in actual (but not with the
foggles) that if he flies into IMC, he'll put on his foggles. Everyone
is affected differently. Which is why you want your first experience in
it to be with an experienced instructor.


-m
--
## Mark T. Dame
## VP, Product Development
## MFM Software, Inc. (http://www.mfm.com/)
"We must acknowledge once and for all that the purpose of diplomacy
is to prolong a crisis."
-- Star Trek: Spock, "The Mark of Gideon"

"Mark T. Dame" wrote in :

I have a friend who gets vertigo so bad in actual (but not with the
foggles) that if he flies into IMC, he'll put on his foggles.
Everyone is affected differently. Which is why you want your first
experience in it to be with an experienced instructor.

I certainly agree with this. But the sad fact is that most instructors,
both CFI and CFII, don't have adequate experience. This isn't likely to
change, either, given the economics of the field.

--
Regards,

Stan

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." B. Franklin

Stan Gosnell wrote:

"Mark T. Dame" wrote in :

I certainly agree with this. But the sad fact is that most instructors,
both CFI and CFII, don't have adequate experience. This isn't likely to
change, either, given the economics of the field.

Very true. I was fortunate in that one of the three instructors that I
took instrument training with was experienced and competent flying IMC.
He's the one I flew with the first time I flew in actual IMC.

I had three instructors during my training for exact that reason. My
primary instrument instructor is a very competent pilot and good at
teaching techniques, but he's a "weather wimp". He got a corporate job
and quit after a few months because he wasn't comfortable flying in
actual IMC. (Now he's a dispatcher for a regional airline, so he
doesn't have to worry about it.) Since I knew I wasn't going to get any
quality IMC time with him, I flew with a couple of other guys for that.
I think my primary instructor was secretly relieved that he didn't
have to do that part!


-m
--
## Mark T. Dame
## VP, Product Development
## MFM Software, Inc. (http://www.mfm.com/)
"...he began by assuring me that it was actually pretty simple -- a
promise engineers always make just before they start speaking in
tongues."
-- J. Kluger, Discover, Aug. 1993