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Harrier vs. JSF-35



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 10th 04, 03:56 PM
Merlin
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Default Harrier vs. JSF-35

The JSF will be very late and very expensive.

The British have not even started to build the Aircraft Carrier
yet that it is supposed to operate from !

It is a pity that the Harrier was not developed further ?

An 'Invincible' Class carrier with Harriers and Osprey AEW is
probably the way to go for the UK ? I don't think we can afford
big carriers anymore?

Big Carriers are very vulnerable to the 'Super-Torpedoes' that are
being developed.

The Second World War saw the end of the Battleship the time of the
Super Carrier ending cannot be far away ?

Merlin

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  #2  
Old December 10th 04, 04:08 PM
Kevin Brooks
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Default


"Merlin" wrote in message
oups.com...
The JSF will be very late and very expensive.

The British have not even started to build the Aircraft Carrier
yet that it is supposed to operate from !

It is a pity that the Harrier was not developed further ?


You already asked this question once last week, and were told quite clearly
that not only was the answer "no", but further that you are utterly clueless
in regards to the harrier, the F-35B, and things military in general. Give
it a break.

Brooks

snip further garbage


  #3  
Old December 10th 04, 05:08 PM
Keith Willshaw
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Default


"Merlin" wrote in message
oups.com...
The JSF will be very late and very expensive.


Perhaps

The British have not even started to build the Aircraft Carrier
yet that it is supposed to operate from !


The main contractor and supplier has been selected and
the design assessment phase is in progess.

It is a pity that the Harrier was not developed further ?


It was but the limit of the technology has pretty much been reached.

An 'Invincible' Class carrier with Harriers and Osprey AEW is
probably the way to go for the UK ? I don't think we can afford
big carriers anymore?


The ships are no around 25 years old, are too small for the task
allocated and the harrier is obsolescent.

Big Carriers are very vulnerable to the 'Super-Torpedoes' that are
being developed.


But small carriers are vulnerable to aircraft already in service.

The Second World War saw the end of the Battleship the time of the
Super Carrier ending cannot be far away ?


A prediction first made in 1946.

Keith


  #4  
Old December 11th 04, 05:01 AM
[email protected]
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Default

On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 13:14:21 -0800, hoarse with no name
wrote:

In article .com,
"Merlin" wrote:

Big Carriers are very vulnerable to the 'Super-Torpedoes' that are
being developed.


Why would a super-torp be more effective against carriers than against
other surface vessels? It wouldn't. Yet long carriers are more effective
in the sub-killing role than harrier carriers. Long carriers are most
likely the most effective surface vessel in sub-killing because the
planes it launches cover so much area so quickly.


This would be true if large deck carriers had fixed wing ASW assets.
But they don't (or soon won't).

The first time a Big Grey Boat gets "tagged" by a sub there will some
very interesting discussions in the Halls of Power.

Bill Kambic

Veteran: VS-27, VS-30, VS-73/VP-93

  #5  
Old December 11th 04, 04:54 PM
Merlin
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Default

Brooks is probably correct = I know nothing about military things.

So my comment that it will only be in conflict whether or not the Super
Carrier is proven becoming obsolete has no validity.
Further lack of validity is the comment that in the next major
war(heaven forbid) the submarine will reign supreme and advanced
torpedo technology will cause the super carrier endless problems. If
the steering system and screws are disabled by an advanced torpedo that
would be a pretty cost effective round ?

It is likely that the lateness and the cost overruns of the F-35 will
give Defence Ministers headaches. There will likely be a gap between
the old systems ending and the new(F-35) beginning).
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...craft/f-35.htm

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/...?oneclick=true

http://www.strategypage.com/messageb...s/512-4094.asp

http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/de...286f e08f6ee0

http://www.vectorsite.net/avf35.html

http://www.afa.org/magazine/april2003/0403F35.html
wrote:
On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 13:14:21 -0800, hoarse with no name


wrote:

In article .com,
"Merlin" wrote:

Big Carriers are very vulnerable to the 'Super-Torpedoes' that are
being developed.


Why would a super-torp be more effective against carriers than

against
other surface vessels? It wouldn't. Yet long carriers are more

effective
in the sub-killing role than harrier carriers. Long carriers are

most
likely the most effective surface vessel in sub-killing because the
planes it launches cover so much area so quickly.


This would be true if large deck carriers had fixed wing ASW assets.
But they don't (or soon won't).

The first time a Big Grey Boat gets "tagged" by a sub there will some
very interesting discussions in the Halls of Power.

Bill Kambic

Veteran: VS-27, VS-30, VS-73/VP-93


  #6  
Old December 11th 04, 10:25 PM
Kevin Brooks
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Posts: n/a
Default


"Merlin" wrote in message
oups.com...
Brooks is probably correct = I know nothing about military things.

So my comment that it will only be in conflict whether or not the Super
Carrier is proven becoming obsolete has no validity.


What has no validity is your continual ranting about further development of
a program that most posters have already well informed you is about at the
end of its development potential. You started this argument once before, and
a number of folks provided well reasoned arguments that pretty much
destroyed your basic premises (you could not even get the basic facts right
about the mechanics of the F-35B's vertical propulsion, for gosh sakes). Why
don't you first address the points that were raised then, instead of
bull-headedly restating the same clap-trap?

Further lack of validity is the comment that in the next major
war(heaven forbid) the submarine will reign supreme and advanced
torpedo technology will cause the super carrier endless problems. If
the steering system and screws are disabled by an advanced torpedo that
would be a pretty cost effective round ?


Not if your very expensive submarine sent to deliver that uber-weapon
instead ends up being ripped apart by a combination of ASW helicopter,
patrol aircraft, and destroyer/frigate attacks.


It is likely that the lateness and the cost overruns of the F-35 will
give Defence Ministers headaches. There will likely be a gap between
the old systems ending and the new(F-35) beginning).


When you can get your basic facts right about the F-35B, then you can come
back and sling all of the website cites you care to, en mass, in another
attempt to obfuscate; till then, back to the basics.

snip numerous references of unexplained applicability

Brooks



 




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